nframe
Well-Known Member
I think I read somewhere that adding palm stearin will give the soap a higher percentage of glycerin. Apart from that, what are the advantages of using palm stearin? How much should be used? 2% of oil weight?
Palm stearin
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nframe
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Does nobody know about palm stearin then? I am sorry to ask again but my query might have slipped through the net...
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Sorry, I can't answer your question. 
It looks like palm stearin has the same SAP value as palm oil, so the amount of glycerin produced should be roughly the same.
Palm stearin is the hard fraction of palm oil (the part that melts last, or solidifies first), and can be extracted (or rather, fractioned) by controlling the temperature of the oil and pouring off liquid parts at different temperatures.
I can't see an reason this would make much difference in soap (maybe the soap would get slightly harder and be slightly less soluble).
It might make a lot of difference in creams and lotions (adding body, being a harder fat).
Palm stearin is the hard fraction of palm oil (the part that melts last, or solidifies first), and can be extracted (or rather, fractioned) by controlling the temperature of the oil and pouring off liquid parts at different temperatures.
I can't see an reason this would make much difference in soap (maybe the soap would get slightly harder and be slightly less soluble).
It might make a lot of difference in creams and lotions (adding body, being a harder fat).
Tallow, lard, palm and other fats can be separated fairly easily into "stearin" and "olein" by cooling the melted fat slowly until some it solidifies. The solid part of the fat is filtered out and called stearin. The liquid part of the fat that remains is the olein. Like any other triglyceride fat, stearin (or olein) creates glycerin when it is saponified.
Palm stearin is just stearin made from palm oil. It's the most common stearin that most people talk about here on SMF. You'd use it exactly like you would use regular palm oil. The stearic and palmitic acids in soap made with stearin might be a bit higher than in soap made with regular palm oil, but it's not going to be a huge difference.
You wrote: "...I read somewhere that adding palm stearin will give the soap a higher percentage of glycerin..."
Stearin is about the same as any other soap making fat as far as the amount of glycerin created when it's saponified. You can calculate it: https://classicbells.com/soap/glycerin.html
Stearic acid is made by further processing stearin to break the fat molecules apart into glycerin and fatty acid molecules. The glycerin is removed and the fatty acids that remain are either sold as commercial grade stearic acid, which is a mix of mostly stearic and palmitic acids, or further refined. Stearic acid adds no glycerin when it saponifies.
The glycerin from fats vs no glycerin from fatty acids could be the point the author was making in the source you read. Or the author might simply be parroting bad facts from another (misinformed) source without checking. Because you haven't provided a link to the source, it's hard to say.
Stearin will saponify slowly just like any normal soaping fat. Stearic acid saponifies very quickly, just like any fatty acid. It's stearic acid that you would want to use with care. Unless you're making shave soap or cream soap, most people don't generally use a lot of stearic acid in their recipes -- I think I've seen mentions of maybe 2-3% stearic acid for regular bathing soap.
Palm stearin is just stearin made from palm oil. It's the most common stearin that most people talk about here on SMF. You'd use it exactly like you would use regular palm oil. The stearic and palmitic acids in soap made with stearin might be a bit higher than in soap made with regular palm oil, but it's not going to be a huge difference.
You wrote: "...I read somewhere that adding palm stearin will give the soap a higher percentage of glycerin..."
Stearin is about the same as any other soap making fat as far as the amount of glycerin created when it's saponified. You can calculate it: https://classicbells.com/soap/glycerin.html
Stearic acid is made by further processing stearin to break the fat molecules apart into glycerin and fatty acid molecules. The glycerin is removed and the fatty acids that remain are either sold as commercial grade stearic acid, which is a mix of mostly stearic and palmitic acids, or further refined. Stearic acid adds no glycerin when it saponifies.
The glycerin from fats vs no glycerin from fatty acids could be the point the author was making in the source you read. Or the author might simply be parroting bad facts from another (misinformed) source without checking. Because you haven't provided a link to the source, it's hard to say.
Stearin will saponify slowly just like any normal soaping fat. Stearic acid saponifies very quickly, just like any fatty acid. It's stearic acid that you would want to use with care. Unless you're making shave soap or cream soap, most people don't generally use a lot of stearic acid in their recipes -- I think I've seen mentions of maybe 2-3% stearic acid for regular bathing soap.
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Adding Palm stearin (or any stearin) will increase the INS number and decrease the iodine number.
Effectively the solubility of the soap will be lowered, and the hardness and the longevity of the soap will be increased.
There are different types of palm stearin's, ranging from "soft" stearin to quite hard stearin. Palm stearin is used in manufacturing margarine through to cocoa butter substitutes. Roughly speaking, the higher the melt point of the palm stearin, the more palmitic acid (as a percentage of the fatty acids) it contains.
You could make a 100% palm stearin soap, but it would likely be quite waxy and hard, without a lot of lather. 2% in soap is not likely to be noticed much, if at all. You would have to experiment, to see what your stearin is like in different recipes.
nframe
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for taking the time to reply.
Good info Salted Fig I think you and DeeAnna covered it well as for information
I think you and DeeAnna covered it well as for informationThank you so much for the info Salted Fig and DeeAnna. I bought some Vegetable Shortening to make Dish Bar/Laundry Bar.
On the box is written " Vegetable Shortening" ( 49/52).
Ingredients: RBD Palm Oil, RBD Palm Stearine & Antioxidant.
What does the number 49/52 mean?
What would be the Saponification Value for this shortening?
thank you
On the box is written " Vegetable Shortening" ( 49/52).
Ingredients: RBD Palm Oil, RBD Palm Stearine & Antioxidant.
What does the number 49/52 mean?
What would be the Saponification Value for this shortening?
thank you
@min -- Your topic is totally different than the original poster's question. Please ask this question in a new thread rather than "hijack" this thread. More people will read your question and you will likely get better answers. Here's how --
Go to the main forum window https://www.soapmakingforum.com/forums/lye-based-soap-forum.11/
Look for the Post New Thread button in the upper right part of the window.
Click that button and start a new thread with your question.
***
My answer to your question is -- I have no idea.
Go to the main forum window https://www.soapmakingforum.com/forums/lye-based-soap-forum.11/
Look for the Post New Thread button in the upper right part of the window.
Click that button and start a new thread with your question.
***
My answer to your question is -- I have no idea.
Sorry to bring up an old thread. Recently I acquired a lot of Palm Stearin and decided to use it in soap. There's not much info online so I decided to experiment on it myself.
Palm stearin is a white and hard solid oil, actually looks a lot like coco butter.
My first batch was 40% olive oil, 37% palm stearin and 23% coconut oil. Second batch was 50%, 30%palm stearin and 20% coconut oil. Pretty high percentage in palm stearin.
The result is bad. The soap leaves a waxy feeling on your skin. It's not moisturizing waxy. It's waxy waxy, like you-need-to-take-a-second-shower-to-wash-away-the-texture waxy.
I refuse to give up on palm stearin because I have 2 kg at home, gee. I just made my third batch with 65% olive oil, 25% coconut oil and only 10% of palm stearin. It gives the hardness to the soap. Currently, that's the only thing I expect.
I am still waiting for the 3rd batch to cure. I'll update on how it goes after it's done.
Palm stearin is a white and hard solid oil, actually looks a lot like coco butter.
My first batch was 40% olive oil, 37% palm stearin and 23% coconut oil. Second batch was 50%, 30%palm stearin and 20% coconut oil. Pretty high percentage in palm stearin.
The result is bad. The soap leaves a waxy feeling on your skin. It's not moisturizing waxy. It's waxy waxy, like you-need-to-take-a-second-shower-to-wash-away-the-texture waxy.
I refuse to give up on palm stearin because I have 2 kg at home, gee. I just made my third batch with 65% olive oil, 25% coconut oil and only 10% of palm stearin. It gives the hardness to the soap. Currently, that's the only thing I expect.
I am still waiting for the 3rd batch to cure. I'll update on how it goes after it's done.
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hi guys. bringing this post back up. can anyone tell what's the sponification value of any stearing? let say I dont know the source. how would I calculate the amount of lye?
It's going to be approximately the same as the base oil from which the stearin is made. So the sap value of palm stearin will be about the same as the sap value of palm oil.
Palm stearin and palm olein (palmolein) are provided in the SoapCalc soap recipe calculator. Have you checked the calculator(s) you use?
Palm stearin and palm olein (palmolein) are provided in the SoapCalc soap recipe calculator. Have you checked the calculator(s) you use?
Hi DeeAnna. yes I did check , though..I do not know the source of the stearin... so a bit of a problem. can I estimate an avarge? or it would be a big difference between all stearin?
I don't know that I would assume stearin from palm would have the same saponification value as stearin from, say, lard or tallow. But I haven't spent much time thinking about it, to be honest.
thanks for the reply
