Palm oil confusion

[Cal43]

I'm so new at all of this. Please tell me, what's the beef with palm oil. I thought it was vegan, but others say no. I'm seeing post about avoiding it. Please help me to understand. Thanks in advance.

 

[Obsidian]

To keep up with the demand for palm oil the world over, rain forests are destroyed to make room for palm plantations. Many animals are killed or die from this, including orangutans. So while the oil its self is plant based, the animal deaths that come from its production is unacceptable to some.

 

[cmzaha]

...and it gives people jobs that could starve without the Palm industry so I use it guilt free.

 

[lsg]

I try to use sustainable palm. Not meaning to sound cross, but I think it would be better if you researched palm and sustainable palm on the Internet. This is a topic that can lead to arguments, so I think it is better for you to research independently.

 

[shunt2011]

I too use sustainable palm.

 

[Cal43]

I try to use sustainable palm. Not meaning to sound cross, but I think it would be better if you researched palm and sustainable palm on the Internet. This is a topic that can lead to arguments, so I think it is better for you to research independently.

Well taken, you don't sound cross at all. It's good to be pointed in the right direction. I didn't even know that there are options in palm. Thank you.

 

[shunt2011]

Lard and Tallow are alternatives to palm. I like lard. Otherwise it will take some creative work to find something similar using butters (shea, cocoa etc.). And will be more expensive to produce.

 

[cmzaha]

I try to use sustainable palm. Not meaning to sound cross, but I think it would be better if you researched palm and sustainable palm on the Internet. This is a topic that can lead to arguments, so I think it is better for you to research independently.

Yep, it can lead to very heated arguments

 

[Dennis]

OK Dennis, just shut up! I mean it!

 

[cmzaha]

OK Dennis, just shut up! I mean it!

yup

 

[Dean]

I'm so new at all of this. Please tell me, what's the beef with palm oil. I thought it was vegan, but others say no. I'm seeing post about avoiding it. Please help me to understand. Thanks in advance.

This is the result of palm oil demand. Soy wax is the inexpensive vegan alternative to palm.

 

[DeeAnna]

And now ... with this mention of soy wax ... comes the "h**l no, I won't GMO" contingent who won't use soy of any sort.

<...ducking behind Dennis and Carolyn for cover...>

 

[Dean]

And now ... with this mention of soy wax ... comes the "h**l no, I won't GMO" contingent who won't use soy of any sort.

<...ducking behind Dennis and Carolyn for cover...>

Rumor has it that non-GMO Soy wax is available.

 

[IrishLass]

Besides the GMO factor, I know of several folks who steer clear of using soy because of soy allergies. Also, it seems that soy is not without it's own deforestation issues in the Amazon rainforest as they are opening up more and more land to soy production in Brazil.

The older I get, the more I see that there are pros and cons to everything we use for making soap. Everything has an impact for good or bad in one way or another. There's no single 'correct' or 'incorrect' choice for one and all when it comes to using or not using palm in our handmade soaps....or soy, or anything else for that matter. Each ingredient comes with its own peculiar 'baggage' that some can live with and others can live without and vice versa. In then end, it all comes down to which pros outweigh the cons in each individual's minds/consciences.

Bottom line at least for where the forum is concerned is that no one on the forum should ever be scolded for choosing to either use or not use one or the other....... Not that I see anyone being scolded for using or not using palm or soy or animal fats, etc.... in this thread.........at least so far. But we're keeping an eye out. lol


IrishLass

 

[shunt2011]

There is no soy that is certified organic or non GMO. About 98% of all soy is GMO. I did some research when I saw someone advertising organic soy candles. It’s a personal decision each person needs to make.

 

[Dean]

Besides the GMO factor, I know of several folks who steer clear of using soy because of soy allergies. Also, it seems that soy is not without it's own deforestation issues in the Amazon rainforest as they are opening up more and more land to soy production in Brazil.

The older I get, the more I see that there are pros and cons to everything we use for making soap. Everything has an impact for good or bad in one way or another. There's no single 'correct' or 'incorrect' choice for one and all when it comes to using or not using palm in our handmade soaps....or soy, or anything else for that matter. Each ingredient comes with its own peculiar 'baggage' that some can live with and others can live without and vice versa. In then end, it all comes down to which pros outweigh the cons in each individual's minds/consciences.

Bottom line at least for where the forum is concerned is that no one on the forum should ever be scolded for choosing to either use or not use one or the other....... Not that I see anyone being scolded for using or not using palm or soy or animal fats in this thread, etc.........at least so far. But we're keeping an eye out. lol


IrishLass

I agree! My college major was Environmental Studies where I learned “There is no free lunch.” For example, solar and wind power have serious environmental impacts that I won’t go in to. However some choices are more environmentally destructive than others.

I for one have been very careful not to use the “should” word, let alone scold. Interestingly, when the topic of vegan or palm free soap comes up, some that dont soap animal or palm free become defensive as if they are being judged when no one to my knowlede has pointed the finger of shame.

 

[Terri E]

Would putting that much wax (soy or other) in your soap be a problem for plumbing or build-up on fixtures? How does it make the soap feel on your skin? I have never added any wax, bees or other to my soap.

 

[Dean]

Would putting that much wax (soy or other) in your soap be a problem for plumbing or build-up on fixtures? How does it make the soap feel on your skin? I have never added any wax, bees or other to my soap.

Hi Terri,

Saw your cute pup. My family’s first dog was a samoyed.

I’m not a chemist but I dont think soy wax is a true wax. Its hydrogenated oil. No issues with my plumbing. I use it in high percentages. Feels fine on the skin.

 

[Obsidian]

I'm really interested in trying some soy wax. I've always stayed away from soy because I associate it with crisco/cheap filler. I generally use plam but I don't care for how it feels in soap and sometimes I do want a all veggie soap.

@Dean do you have a supplier recommendation? I just want a little to try.

 

[Dean]

I'm really interested in trying some soy wax. I've always stayed away from soy because I associate it with crisco/cheap filler. I generally use plam but I don't care for how it feels in soap and sometimes I do want a all veggie soap.

@Dean do you have a supplier recommendation? I just want a little to try.

My last supplier was Natures Garden. It comes in different grades. I search for “415”. @KiwiMoose recently tried it and thought it made a lovely creamy lather. It has a lot of strearic so adjust quantity to ur desired hardness level. Let me know how u like it!