Oils aint Oils

[crazyk]

Hi, can someone please describe how you know which oils should be used as the superfatting oils (mixed in at trace) and those used to mix with the lye.

examples:

Olive oil
Almond oil
Avocado oil
etc...

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Are you doing HP or CP? The only way superfatting at trace makes any difference is in the HP process.

Saponification happens in the mold when you CP soap and the lye cannot distinguish what oils you added at trace. For CP- it's better to calculate the oils into the recipe and change your superfat percentage in the calculator.

Yes - you can add an oil at trace and your soap will be superfatted - but the lye won't necessarily leave the oil of your choice alone. It will react with whatever it gets to.

With HP or Hot process soaping - the saponification process happens during the cook. You can add any oil you would like to use as a superfat oil at the end of the process. Again - any oil can be used - but you want to select one with a long shelf life to avoid any DOS issues.

 

[Missjulesdid]

Marr is correct (ain't she always?) I wonder if a scientific study has been released regarding exactly how much saponification actually occurs in the soap pot. Dr. Kevin Dunn, author of caveman chemistry, has a new Soap Chemistry book comming out. It's in draft stage and should be released very soon. Maybe it will address this.

 

[Guest]

Well - considering it takes up to 48 hours to complete the saponification process - it's hard to say how much reacts in the pot. Maybe initially the lye reacts very quickly and saponifies a good amount of the soap and then the process slows until completed? It's a mystery to me.

I would assume that the chemical makeup of individual oils probably have something to do with etc. Way too many variables to factor in I suspect.

 

[WilsonFamilyPicnic]

Well - considering it takes up to 48 hours to complete the saponification process - it's hard to say how much reacts in the pot. Maybe initially the lye reacts very quickly and saponifies a good amount of the soap and then the process slows until completed? It's a mystery to me.

I would assume that the chemical makeup of individual oils probably have something to do with etc. Way too many variables to factor in I suspect.

this is in no way scientific, but i agree with Marr (again, who doesnt!?!). it seems like sap goes on in the pot, just based on the changes in appearance, but when cleaning dishes, they are always still oily leading me to believe there is still a ways to go. however, when i cut the soap the next day and then wash my hands (yes, you should wear gloves when cutting!), its definately bubbly, and doesn't have much of the oiliness it had the day before...

 

[Soapmaker Man]

Yup, Mar is dead on correct. I have heard over the years that 95% or more of the Saponification process takes place in the pot in the CP process, and during gel. I have never heard how scientific evidence supports this, or even if it is possible to prove exactly how much of the SAP process occurs between the pot and the next few hours during gel and cooling, but I tend to agree that at least 95% is saponified in the first 12 to 24 hours after pour.

Paul :wink:

"With enough soap, you can blow almost anything!"-- Fight Club

 

[crazyk]

So in laymans terms, any oils that are liquid at room temperature can be added once all solids are melted over the stove?
And also be able to be added once the melted oils have cooled slightly just before introducing the lye?

Thanks people

 

[CiCi]

As crazy as this may sound, I can't soap with gloves, so I don't wear them. I've gotten raw soap on my hands and when I feel the burn, I just rinse it off (I have a bucket of hot soapie vinegar water, nearby, where I put my utensils, as I use them). Anyway, I did a salt bar batch, yesterday, and I cut it while it was hot and soft. I took the extra pieces, left over from crinkle cutting and smooshed them all together in my hands so that I could smoosh it into individual molds. I had a cut on my finger and I was able to handle that raw salt soap with hardly any burn at all. I started to feel it pretty good, in my cut, after I got everything smooshed into the molds. I then washed my hands in the bucket and again in the sink. I have no idea exactly where saponification starts and ends, but I think it is somewhere around trace and after. I can usually start using my soaps on day two, if I choose.

 

[Missjulesdid]

cici, are your hands made out of steel??? or maybe I'm just a whimpI have burns on my hands right now from raw soap. was in a hurry to get my soap out of my mold so I could get another bathc going.. I handled the soap that was maybe 8 hours old... I got the soap all over my hands and it didn't burn or anything so I assumed I was fine and finished up what I was doing, When I was done,I went and washed it off in the sink and didn't think anything of it until I looked down and my hands were BRIGHT red like a lobster... and they were a little swolen too... The palms of my hands are fine, but the BACKS are so burned. When I washed off the raw soap, I must have gotten it all over the backs of my hands... It's three days later and they're still red, and now they're getting incredibly dry. I've been slathering them with shea butter and almond oil and they just soak it up.

 

[Soapmaker Man]

I'm like cici, as I unmold my soaps after 8 or 9 hours also with no burning. I do get a little tongue zap for a few days, but after 3 days, I shower with it to see how the batch is, checking for bubbles and scent.

I bagged 100 pounds of lye yesterday, since I'm starting to sell it on Etsy.
I did get a few slight burns, even wearing gloves, nothing big though.

Paul :wink:

"With enough soap, you can blow up just about anything." --Fight Club

 

[CiCi]

cici, are your hands made out of steel??? or maybe I'm just a whimpI have burns on my hands right now from raw soap. was in a hurry to get my soap out of my mold so I could get another bathc going.. I handled the soap that was maybe 8 hours old... I got the soap all over my hands and it didn't burn or anything so I assumed I was fine and finished up what I was doing, When I was done,I went and washed it off in the sink and didn't think anything of it until I looked down and my hands were BRIGHT red like a lobster... and they were a little swolen too... The palms of my hands are fine, but the BACKS are so burned. When I washed off the raw soap, I must have gotten it all over the backs of my hands... It's three days later and they're still red, and now they're getting incredibly dry. I've been slathering them with shea butter and almond oil and they just soak it up.

Wow...I hope your hands are fairing better. Some raw soaps, at least for me, are more harsh than others. Some I can get on my hands and it will take a while before it bothers me...others will bother me sooner. I've never had it where it made my hands red, though. Of course, everyone's skin is different and it could be that your skin is a lot more sensitive than mine. I handle fresh soap all of the time and rarely have a problem. I let my hands tell me, first, what's going on. If that feels okay, then I may do the zap test. Generally, two days and I'm good to go. Feel better soon.

 

[crazyk]

So in laymans terms, any oils that are liquid at room temperature can be added once all solids are melted over the stove?
And also be able to be added once the melted oils have cooled slightly just before introducing the lye?

Thanks people

So people, can anyone shed light on my question above?

Thanks

 

[IanT]

Yup thats my understanding, I dont think in CP it matters if you add them in at trace or at the beginning with the base oils because no matter what they lye will only saponify a certain percentage of the oils and leave what you accounted for in the superfat as extra unsaponified oil in the soap...but like they said above you cant choose (in cp) which ones will be left over...


hope that helps...

 

[Soapmaker Man]

In CP, if you add a superfatting oil right before pour, once the lye has already started "eating" the oils and starting saponification, your superfat oil will not be "consumed" like the oils in your base, as much. That is why it is best to wait until after medium trace to add your oil. :wink:

Paul

"With enough soap, you can blow up just about anything." --Fight Club