Not getting to “transparent gel” stage

[maggieB]

I usually make CP soap and this is my first try making liquid KOH soap. I have a 30% coconut/70% olive oil batch that has been cooking for a full day now and it just won’t get to the transparent gel stage. It’s stuck in the puffy half-gel-half-foamy-blob stage. Any suggestions? I’m thinking the KOH I used isn’t really 100%, but 90% pure.

Thank you!!!

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome, MaggieB!

To help us be able to troubleshoot better, can you also give us your water and KOH amounts? Without the full recipe, we'd only be shooting in the dark. Thanks!


IrishLass

 

[maggieB]

Hello,
Attached is my recipe. Thanks!
~MaggieB

 

[DeeAnna]

The lye concentration you started with is 37%. That's very low amount of water for liquid soap paste, and it is physically impossible for the paste to go into that vaseline gel stage you're looking for with so very little water. Water evaporation in the hours you've cooked this paste has reduced the water content even further.

Next time, don't use that "water as % of oils" setting. Use 25% lye concentration OR 3:1 water:lye ratio. You'll get better results. Also see Irish Lass and Susie's tutorials on no-cook liquid soap making. Their methods will save you a lot of time, hassle, and frustration.

Irish Lass: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=428988 see posts 8 and 9
and: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=57974
Susie: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852
Another good resource: https://milesawayfarm.wordpress.com/...here-to-start/

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what DeeAnna said.

One of the best pieces of advice I've ever been given when it comes to determining how much water to use in my batches is to totally ignore the 'water as % of oils' box on SoapCalc, and instead go one step down to the next line where it says "Lye Concentration". Click on that instead, and type in '25' whenever you are making liquid soap. It determines your water amount based on your lye amount instead of your oil amount (water based on lye amount is a far better way to determine water amounts in ones batches). I don't know why SoapCalc still has that darn infernal 'water as % of oils' option on their site. It causes nothing but confusion and heartbreak to many a new soaper, but I digress.

Anyway, it is as DeeAnna said, you used much too little water in your batch, but don't throw the towel in on your batch just yet, though. If it were mine, I would try to save it by adding some water back in.


IrishLass

 

[DeeAnna]

I also want to add that the visual and texture changes people describe are only guides, not requirements. The soap does not have to gel to saponify properly. Not every batch of CP bar soap goes into gel (this is the exact same thing as liquid soap paste going into gel, aka "vaseline"). The CP bar soap saponifies just fine. Same is true for liquid soap paste.

The zap test tells you if there is no excess lye and that's the way to figure out if your soap is fully saponified. Not how the soap looks in the pot.

I suspect your soap was probably perfectly fine and fully saponified within an hour or so after it reached emulsification, so no need to cook it longer. I'd zap test it and then start diluting it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Another good resource: https://milesawayfarm.wordpress.com/...here-to-start/

DeeAnna, that link doesn't seem to be working. When I tried it, I got this message:
Error 404
The page you are looking for does not exist; it may have been moved, or removed altogether. You might want to try the search function. Alternatively, return to the front page.

 

[maggieB]

Ok. I will definitely take a look at the links DeeAnna provided and take note for my next try at liquid soap.

@IrishLass - I added a more water to my “confused blob” as you suggested and from what DeeAnna had noted about my water amount being so low for liquid soap making. I’ll see what happens in the next couple of hours.

@DeeAnna - Yes, I think my soap is probably fine. I took a pH strip to it and it was pretty neutral (8-ish). I didn’t like the murkiness during my dilution test, but I think if I’m just using it to clean my house and make liquid laundry soap I should be ok. I wanted to try making liquid soap because I was spending $18/bottle for Dr. Bonner’s Castile.

If my blob turns out anything useful, I will post to let you know. Thank you!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Thank you, Zany. This link should work better --
https://milesawayfarm.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/liquid-soapmaking-where-to-start/

 

[maggieB]

Update on my blob... After adding more water and cooking a bit more, it FINALLY got to the translucent stage. I diluted some and it still came out a bit murky, but my family loved the feel of it so I saved half the batch to make hand soap. I'm going to add more lye solution to the remaining batch to see if that will clear it up a bit more and not be as emollient. I still want to make house cleaning stuff out of the other half.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm sure you learned something by this, but you didn't really need to cook it until it gelled (aka translucent or vaseline). The paste was done saponifying hours ago, so all you accomplished by the second cook was to change its state from a solid-ish form to a more liquid-ish gel. If that makes you feel better, then good, but next time ... honest ... it's truly not necessary to do this.

Unless I'm missing something, you set your superfat at 1%. That's low enough as it is for household cleaning. Is there a reason why you want to add more KOH?

 

[maggieB]

I'm sure you learned something by this, but you didn't really need to cook it until it gelled (aka translucent or vaseline). The paste was done saponifying hours ago, so all you accomplished by the second cook was to change its state from a solid-ish form to a more liquid-ish gel. If that makes you feel better, then good, but next time ... honest ... it's truly not necessary to do this.

Unless I'm missing something, you set your superfat at 1%. That's low enough as it is for household cleaning. Is there a reason why you want to add more KOH?

Hi DeeAnna - I didn’t check the 90% KOH box when I originally input my recipe in SoapCalc and I should have. So I actually got an 11% super fat - a very lux feeling hand soap, but I think it’s too oily for cleaning my floor. I think if I get it down to at least 3%... Yes! I did learn quite a bit. I can’t wait to try making this again, but with all the tips I got from the forum. KOH soap making is definitely a different animal than the CP NaOH soap I am used to making. Thanks all!!!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Thank you, Zany. This link should work better --
https://milesawayfarm.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/liquid-soapmaking-where-to-start/

Omigosh! Excellent overview of what to expect when making liquid soap! What a joy it was to read how one of our LS group shared all that she had learned, right down to seeing my personal favorite PKO & Lard LS (tweaked, of course) near the end. Thank you for sharing that link! It made me very happy!

 

[Susie]

- Yes, I think my soap is probably fine. I took a pH strip to it and it was pretty neutral (8-ish). I didn’t like the murkiness during my dilution test, but I think if I’m just using it to clean my house and make liquid laundry soap I should be ok. I wanted to try making liquid soap because I was spending $18/bottle for Dr. Bonner’s Castile.

You can not test soap with a pH strip and get an accurate result.

 

[sewandgarden]

You can not test soap with a pH strip and get an accurate result.

Can you make transparent (clear) liquid soap without lye?

 

[shunt2011]

Can you make transparent (clear) liquid soap without lye?

No, you can’t make soap without lye. [emoji3]