Nice goat milk soap getting better. Cure time?

[Mobjack Bay]

One of the first CP soaps I made was a goat milk recipe. The bars are now 5 months old. The soap is really nice, so I went back to check how I made it. The recipe is from LovinSoap.com, here, but I did not have RBO and subbed in PO (it was only 8% of the oils). Key details: I added the lye to frozen fresh Meyenberg goat milk, SF 5% pre-milk (and expected the milk to up that), 33% lye concentration and worked at room temp. I used only 0.1 oz lavender EO that I mixed with 0.5 oz of cosmetic grade colloidal oatmeal before adding to the batter (for 2 lbs of oil!). I poured the batter into individual 4 oz. cavity molds and put them in the refrigerator for an unknown amount of time (probably overnight). The soap was a creamy white, which has darkened to a golden white over time.

I can still smell the lavender, which surprises me because the soap has been stored in the lowly confines of a brown paper bag. The lather is super creamy and, despite having 31% CO, is mostly small, denser bubbles. It feels more like lard than palm and is gentle. I don’t typically use so many different oils, but this result is making me think differently, as is the cure time. I liked the soap a couple of months ago, but now it’s even nicer. This soap and another butter rich soap I made early on have become lovely with a multi-month cure.

I’m now curious how much cure time matters in general for soap quality. There seems to be a strong consensus for aging salt bars, but what do we think about aging other kinds of soap? Do all soaps improve with time? Or, is there an optimal amount of time to cure a soap and before it starts to go down hill? If you feel like piping in, please do!

 

[Cellador]

I believe all soaps improve with time, but some improve more than others. But, I don't think this is indefinite- I think once a soap hits a maximum cure time, it just maintains it's current properties and may then eventually begin to decline in quality (DOS & rancidity issues).
This is all just my opinion- I haven't been making soap long enough to see how a soap might be at 5, 7, or 10 years. Almost all if my oldest soaps (2-3 years) have developed mild DOS.

 

[Nanette]

Go downhill...that struck me as so funny. Between one and two years but I really have a hard time keeping soaps in optimal conditions...summers here.

 

[jcandleattic]

Almost all if my oldest soaps (2-3 years) have developed mild DOS.

I would look into the way they are being stored (yes, even long term like this) I have so many soaps that for my personal use, I rarely use a soap that is less than 6 years old, and out of all the years I've been making soap, I have only had 1 batch get DOS and go rancid, and I honestly believe it's because it was sitting on a metal rack that had some rust on it.

I’m now curious how much cure time matters in general for soap quality.

It matters. Think of it as fine wine - or aged whiskey. It mellows with age, the older the better. I personally will not use a soap that has not cured at the very very minimum of 8 weeks, however, if I'm being honest, I don't like using soap that is less than at least a year old.

Now as a seller, I realize this is impractical, but will still not sell a soap that is at least 8 weeks old. I only sell at 4 markets (2 in October, 1 in November, and 1 in December) so this production strategy works for me. If a soap is not made by mid August - it does not go to market with me that year. (I finished my yearly production this weekend)

 

[Cellador]

I would look into the way they are being stored (yes, even long term like this) I have so many soaps that for my personal use, I rarely use a soap that is less than 6 years old, and out of all the years I've been making soap, I have only had 1 batch get DOS and go rancid, and I honestly believe it's because it was sitting on a metal rack that had some rust on it.

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but I live in an area with really high humidity & temps. Although I have air conditioning, there's been several instances where my soaps have sweat- I'm not sure if that is a factor or not. But, I recently got shrink wrap, so maybe that will help in the future.

 

[Nanette]

I would look into the way they are being stored (yes, even long term like this) I have so many soaps that for my personal use, I rarely use a soap that is less than 6 years old, and out of all the years I've been making soap, I have only had 1 batch get DOS and go rancid, and I honestly believe it's because it was sitting on a metal rack that had some rust on it.


It matters. Think of it as fine wine - or aged whiskey. It mellows with age, the older the better. I personally will not use a soap that has not cured at the very very minimum of 8 weeks, however, if I'm being honest, I don't like using soap that is less than at least a year old.

Now as a seller, I realize this is impractical, but will still not sell a soap that is at least 8 weeks old. I only sell at 4 markets (2 in October, 1 in November, and 1 in December) so this production strategy works for me. If a soap is not made by mid August - it does not go to market with me that year. (I finished my yearly production this weekend)

Gee I wish I could do that....my soaps have a horrible time surviving the summer heat and humidity.

 

[jcandleattic]

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but I live in an area with really high humidity & temps. Although I have air conditioning, there's been several instances where my soaps have sweat- I'm not sure if that is a factor or not.

That is a factor - and probably the reason... I didn't think to look at where you are from. I'm in CO which is very dry, and rarely humid... So that is another reason I man not get DOS as often as I might in other types of conditions.

 

[jcandleattic]

time surviving the summer heat and humidity.

I wouldn't think AZ would have that much humidity. I'm in CO and it's a rare occurrence that we get humidity above 25% for any sustainable amount of time.

 

[Nanette]

I wouldn't think AZ would have that much humidity. I'm in CO and it's a rare occurrence that we get humidity above 25% for any sustainable amount of time.

Its an anomaly of southern Arizona, I guess. From mid June to mid September we have what is known as monsoon season....miserable hot humid weather...it gets Very humid as it builds up to rain, repeatedly. Because it is normally dry the rest of the year I only have a swamp cooler (works ok most of the time) so I have double the fun when it gets humid here. The soaps are in their own room and I have closed off the cooler vent and installed a window ac to try to keep the humidity down...and it barely does. AC has to be on high and max cool to dry the room...sigh. You should see my salt bars. Our weather comes up from Baja. Something about the El Nino weather patterns but sometimes I swear I can smell the ocean..probably my imagination or a swimming pool somewhere but I like to dream.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

It can be unbearably humid in coastal Virginia where I am, but with the AC and dehumidifier running, I haven’t noticed any sweating. We do not even open the windows in the summer unless it’s a very dry day. This house is super well insulated and we have a geothermal heat pump which really helps to keep the costs of AC down. My previous house, which was built in 1865, was leaky as a sieve and it was a challenge to control the humidity in the summer and heat in the winter without the wood stove going. It was so bad that my leather shoes would get moldy in the summer.

@jcandleattic Your perspectives based on experience confirm my limited observations to date. I will definitely be keeping cure time in mind as I move ahead!

 

[Liesel Atwood]

Hi there! This might sound gross, but I'll chime in anyway. I have some soaps that were made 10 or more years ago. They were white at the time of making, but over the years they turned into a dark yellow. No DOS, just a uniform color change. They had been stored in the basement where it is cool in the summer but warm and dry in the winter. (wood stove in basement). So, I hated the way they looked, and the scent was gone, leaving kind of an oily smell. I wanted to chuck them out,but my mom discovered that the bars were great for removing grease stains on the men's work clothes, as well as balsam on their hands. So now we keep those bars in storage for the dirty jobs! The lather is amazing, and it leaves skin feeling very soft. I guess some soaps get better in some ways, even though they seem to be deteriorating in others. I've learned not to chuck anything out, even if it looks like it's past it's prime, until I've ascertained if there is another use for it...dirty laundry and grimy woodsmen need cleaning too, so this soap was great for that. I'm still wondering what kind of soap it was when I made it.....LOL! Happy Soaping!

 

[Nanette]

What a great story!!

 

[cmzaha]

Its an anomaly of southern Arizona, I guess. From mid June to mid September we have what is known as monsoon season....miserable hot humid weather...it gets Very humid as it builds up to rain, repeatedly. Because it is normally dry the rest of the year I only have a swamp cooler (works ok most of the time) so I have double the fun when it gets humid here. The soaps are in their own room and I have closed off the cooler vent and installed a window ac to try to keep the humidity down...and it barely does. AC has to be on high and max cool to dry the room...sigh. You should see my salt bars. Our weather comes up from Baja. Something about the El Nino weather patterns but sometimes I swear I can smell the ocean..probably my imagination or a swimming pool somewhere but I like to dream.

You get the Gulf of California Moonsoon the same as we do in So Cal. Some of it has to do with wind patterns and ocean temps. I guarantee Mobjack Bay can explain this well, but I am not going to write the long post it would entail. Maybe Mobjack can condense the cause of Moonsoon weather patterns in AZ

My soaps will sometimes sweat when still on the rack during our humid weather, but I have never had it hasten DOS. I will mention I add in a .01% of BHT and 0.5% Edta which really helps the DOS problem, especially in my tallow/lard soaps. The lard is the culprit for me, which ironically, contains BHT, so I add in a bit more.

 

[Nanette]

Gulf of California/Sea of Cortez sure some good scuba diving....San Pedro Martir....but I digress..I think my cooling system has a lot to do with my humidity problems in spite of how much I try to block it out. And I add no preservative at all, so ...I suppose its why I make small batches and dont have very old soaps--6 or 8 months max. for my market. That is still old enough to be a nice bar imo but hasnt suffered the consequences of my ambient terribleness in the summer.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

You get the Gulf of California Moonsoon the same as we do in So Cal. Some of it has to do with wind patterns and ocean temps. I guarantee Mobjack Bay can explain this well, but I am not going to write the long post it would entail. Maybe Mobjack can condense the cause of Moonsoon weather patterns in AZ

Actually, I had to do a little reading to make sure I was caught up on the mechanisms causing the monsoon in the southwest US but, as it turns out, a monsoon is a monsoon is a monsoon! During the summer, air temperature increases more quickly over land compared with the ocean. Hot air rising over the land creates a low pressure zone that pulls cooler, humid air inland from ocean, or in this case, the Gulf of California. El Niño events (driven by climate gradients over the Pacific Ocean) can help to increase the flow of humid air into So Cal and the US Southwest. There was an El Niño this year, but it just ended a few days ago. Maybe you were smelling the ocean @Nanette!

 

[Nanette]

El Nino was weak this year...not nearly the rain I was hoping for so far.....

 

[Tam3098]

I came across a Castile GM soap I made that is at least 5 years old, and it is amazing......creamy, silky (not slimy)...oh, and a pine tar bar that is at least two years old and so much better than when first made- it was a mess, I threw it in a cardboard box and recently rediscovered it and am honestly surprised at how nice it is‍
Maybe longer cures make a better bar..

 

[Mobjack Bay]

El Nino was weak this year...not nearly the rain I was hoping for so far.....

From what I read, it sounds like the rain will be tapering off now. I had no idea you could get that much rain in Tucson. My son, who moved to So Cal a few years ago, was surprised by the amount of rain they have east of San Diego. There are a lot of wineries and they grow avocados and citrus in the region. Makes more sense now!

 

[Nanette]

Yes the weather here is interesting for a desert!

 

[amd]

I believe a well made soap should last indefinitely without any problems.

When I first started soapmaking (so about 5 years ago) friend of mine was cleaning out his grandmother in law's house after she passed away and found a box of handmade soaps. Based on the records they found, most of the bars were made 90-100 years ago. The soaps were grouped and boxed with various notes, some dated 1915-1930's. Alex had me come look at the boxes and the recipes to see if the soap was good. I'm not sure if they were made with drain cleaner or potash (not knowing much about the historical side of soaps) but none of the soaps showed DOS, and all passed a zap test so I told my friend to use them. He said they were the best soaps he's ever used. They did shred some for using in laundry too and said it worked fantastic.

On that note, I have been saving one of the first bars of soap I ever made (I'm sentimental like that), and it was a very basic recipe (Walmart soap recipe slightly tweaked to include shea butter as I had it on hand) that my notes said was "meh to use". It started to develop a small spot of DOS after 5-1/2 years so I popped it into the shower. It's fantastic! Well made things last and improve.