Newbie with cloudy lye

[Jan Kates]

Hi All
My first post and I am very new to soap making so apols for the dumb questions. I am so new I went to make my first batch of soap just yesterday. I made my lye solution in the morning so it would be cool when I had tyime to make the soap in the arvo. I had no problems making it, it dissolved into a hot clear solution as I was expecting. When I checked on a few hours laters it had turned cloudy and there appeared to be a sediment on the bottom of the jar so I swirled it. It then went clear with what I would describe as flocculation. My first question is why did this happen? 2nd question is can I still use it? 3rd question, if I can't use it how can I safely dispose of it?
Thank you for your patience!
Jan in a very warm Carwoola - rural NSW Australia.

 

[Carolyne Thrasher]

It would help the master soapmakers on here if they knew your water to lye percentage or your measurements. Also were there any additives (sodium lactate, sugar, salt)?

 

[Jan Kates]

Thank you Carolyne. It was 199grams water - I used tap water which is actually rain water as we live out of town, and 133g NaOH. There were no other additives. I mixed them in a glass jug with a stainless steel spoon. I poured half the crystals in, gave a little stir then poured the rest in and stirred until it "cleared" so I knew it was all dissolved then left it.

 

[SaltedFig]

Morning Jan, welcome aboard!
(there's a few Aussies about here )

It's possible you have some sodium carbonate in your solution. This will form when the lye reacts with carbon dioxide in your water or from the air.

For this lye solution, just filter out the particles - you will probably find that your superfat might be a bit higher (probably not by much), because a little of the sodium hydroxide has been used up. For future batches, you can cover your lye solution with cling wrap, or store it in an air-tight (poison/toxic type - #5 plastic is common for this, because it withstands the lye) container until you are ready to use it. If you leave your lye solution uncovered for a while (like overnight), you might see an almost complete crystal "skin" over the top of the solution - be careful, the solution underneath will still be very caustic.

Ps. If your rainwater is coming off a metal roof, or is stored in an older style metal tank, you might want to think about switching to distilled water - dissolved metals in your water can really mess with soap.

PPS. We love seeing first soap photos!

Oh. I just noticed you used a glass jug. Lye dissolves glass (very slowly). What this means that after some unknown number of uses, your glass jug will suddenly shatter ... most likely when the lye is first made and it's really hot, which causes extra stress to the glass. Simple to fix - switch to a heavy #5 plastic jug, or use good quality stainless steel (which is what I do).

 

[Jan Kates]

SaltedFig thank you! OMG I am now having an anxiety attack over my unmanned glass jar full of lye on the brink of self destruction. OK I will buy stainless steel gear on the way home today. So I should discard the current solution? Where/how? We are on septic tank so am reluctant to tip it down the sink.

SaltedFig thank you! OMG I am now having an anxiety attack over my unmanned glass jar full of lye on the brink of self destruction. OK I will buy stainless steel gear on the way home today. So I should discard the current solution? Where/how? We are on septic tank so am reluctant to tip it down the sink.

Also, yes we do have a metal roof, and a 50,000L concrete tank. Which potential could be releasing a carbonate. Calcium? Also I mixed the lye solution outside and it was very humid with an electrical storm building. Who knew soapmaking could be so tricky!!

 

[SaltedFig]

lol - the first thing to remember is not to panic

Unmanned glass jar on the brink of self destruction ... I like your humour (unless the glass is already damaged, it's unlikely to break while it's holding it's first, cold, lye solution).

Dissolved calcium can cause a bit of extra soap scum ... the concrete tank water would still be better than the metal tank water, but if they are both coming off a metal roof (especially if it's starting to rust), your soap might not last as long in storage (you'll see it, if it starts to get DOS - it gets orange spots first, and eventually will eventually change colour and have a distinctive musty smell that gets worse over time). If the roof is colorbond and it's in good nick, you should be able to collect from it (the same as for drinking water, discard the first flush, especially after a dry spell).

If you've got a storm coming in, why not put a clean ice-cream container (or similar) out to catch some water? (Put it on a fence post, with a clean weight of some sort in it, or somewhere up off the ground so it doesn't get splashed dust, and start collecting after the air is cleared by the first rain ... the following rain might be pretty good for soaping, where you are ).

If it were me, I would still make the soap batch with the lye solution you've made - it would be worth it to see how your soap holds up using your stored water.

 

[Jan Kates]

Thank you again. That's a great suggestion and you have given me food for thought with collecting a separate rainwater supply just for soap. I have a sewing studio also and so far don't collect the water off that colorbond roof. As we have had so little rain it hasn't been front of mind to do anything about that but I think it might be time to install a small food grade plastic water butte just for making soap. OK I will proceed with this batch and learn from it. If nothing else it is a safe disposal method for the dodgy lye.

 

[Jill B Blasius]

You said your lye mixture was in a jar... did you put a metal lid on your jar? Aluminum and tin react badly with lye.

 

[Jan Kates]

Good point Jill, thank you. It does have a lid, not sure of the material byt definately metal. The solution was cold (room temp of about 25 deg C) when I put the lid on the jar and no solution has contacted the lid. I guess even at room temp it could still be giving a vapour that could react with the lid?

 

[penelopejane]

Welcome to the forum, Jan.

I like to use #5 plastic (5 inside the little triangle on the bottom of the container) because I can see the NaOH and other additives dissolving in the solution. I find SS containers don't let me see inside well enough. I'd strain your lye if possible through cotton muslim or just really thin cotton.

Also silicone is a great material for stirring implements.

 

[Jan Kates]

Thank you Penelopejane, I was wondering what I should filter it through. I have homespun (cotton) that I can use for that. Do you have any advice on how to then dispose of the filter? Just let it air dry and put it in the rubbish bin?

 

[penelopejane]

I wash mine in plain hot water and use it again and again.

I have dedicated lye jugs for mixing the lye because I’ve found that if you don’t clean plastic perfectly after you’ve mde soap in it it can make the lye a tiny bit cloudy. It’s probably not a problem (maybe it’s just my poor cleaning skills) but I try to avoid it.

 

[Jan Kates]

I wash mine in plain hot water and use it again and again.

I have dedicated lye jugs for mixing the lye because I’ve found that if you don’t clean plastic perfectly after you’ve mde soap in it it can make the lye a tiny bit cloudy. It’s probably not a problem (maybe it’s just my poor cleaning skills) but I try to avoid it.

Thanks! So do you mean you routinely filter? Because cloudy lye is so common for you? You give me hope that if this has happened because of our water supply, and therefore could be an ongoing issue, its really no big deal? I didn't get time to fix the situation after work yesterday - life is so busy at this time of the year.

 

[SaltedFig]

Hi Jan,

I like your idea of collecting the water especially from your sewing studio

Cotton cloth is resistant to lye; pure cotton makes excellent cleaning/filtering/general soaping clothes. Because sodium hydroxide is so reactive, leaving a filtering cloth in the open air will convert the lye solution to washing soda fairly quickly - it should be ready to put into your washing machine by the time you've finished making soap. Straining the solution is a good idea, especially if the solution is hot (it will be cloudy) or left to sit (it may have sediment).

If you still haven't made your soap, the solution you have made could be used as oven cleaner (it will be at the point now that you won't know it's strength - it's getting likely that any soap you make will be heavily superfatted, so it might be better to get some distilled water for the moment, and make a new batch of lye solution for your first soap).

 

[Jan Kates]

Hi Jan,

I like your idea of collecting the water especially from your sewing studio

Cotton cloth is resistant to lye; pure cotton makes excellent cleaning/filtering/general soaping clothes. Because sodium hydroxide is so reactive, leaving a filtering cloth sit on the sink for a short while will see the lye converted to washing soda (in the same way you are getting crystals forming on the surface and as sediment in the lye solution you left out, the lye on the cloth will continue to react with it's surrounds and will become relatively harmless quite quickly - you can go from filtering "rag" to washing machine in less than an hour).

If you still haven't made your soap, the solution you have made could be used as oven cleaner (it will be at the point now that you won't know it's strength - it's getting likely that any soap you make will be heavily superfatted, so it might be better to get some distilled water for the moment, and make a new batch of lye solution for your first soap).

Oven cleaner? OVEN CLEANER?! And she laughed and laughed. Because she knew she would never find out if it would actually work.
Seriously though, thanks for this great information. I'm going to do as you suggest and go with the distilled water for now til I sort the rainwater capture out. Because anything beats cleaning the oven lol.
Thank you so much!

 

[SaltedFig]

Oven cleaner? OVEN CLEANER?! And she laughed and laughed. Because she knew she would never find out if it would actually work.
Seriously though, thanks for this great information. I'm going to do as you suggest and go with the distilled water for now til I sort the rainwater capture out. Because anything beats cleaning the oven lol.
Thank you so much!

 

[Jan Kates]

Hi Jan,

I like your idea of collecting the water especially from your sewing studio

Cotton cloth is resistant to lye; pure cotton makes excellent cleaning/filtering/general soaping clothes. Because sodium hydroxide is so reactive, leaving a filtering cloth in the open air will convert the lye solution to washing soda fairly quickly - it should be ready to put into your washing machine by the time you've finished making soap. Straining the solution is a good idea, especially if the solution is hot (it will be cloudy) or left to sit (it may have sediment).

If you still haven't made your soap, the solution you have made could be used as oven cleaner (it will be at the point now that you won't know it's strength - it's getting likely that any soap you make will be heavily superfatted, so it might be better to get some distilled water for the moment, and make a new batch of lye solution for your first soap).

SaltedFig where are you on the South Coast? Maybe we could catch up some time?

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks! So do you mean you routinely filter? Because cloudy lye is so common for you? You give me hope that if this has happened because of our water supply, and therefore could be an ongoing issue, its really no big deal? I didn't get time to fix the situation after work yesterday - life is so busy at this time of the year.

I'm the one on the south coast - near JB.
I filter if there is any sediment in my lye mix. It only happens now (touch wood) if I let it cool too much or if I use masterbatched lye or if my lye jugs aren't clean (that's why I have jugs I only use for lye as it is one less chance of having to strain).

I have a whole stack on muslim squares that I put in a strainer and pour the lye through that. I fill the lye jug with water and put the strainer and muslim in the jug too. I am a bit of a micro manager though. Lots of people are not so particular and I'm not sure it is at all necessary. I use 2 x filtered water not distilled.

 

[KimT2au]

Hi @Jan Kates , welcome to the group. I love you are storing soaping stuff in your sewing studio. I have a sewing room but it is currently so stuffed full of soaping things and curing soaps to be given as Christmas presents that I could not actually do much sewing in there at the moment. If you don't end up with the time to make your soap you could always water your lye solution down until it was very, very, very weak and then pour it on the ground somewhere safe from animals. My first batch of liquid soap was such a disaster that I used it as a very effective weed killer.

 

[penelopejane]

You can also store lye solution for ages in a liquid laundry detergent bottle (thoroughly cleaned) as long as it has a #5 or #2 in the triangle on the bottom (mine have a #5).
You have to label this really carefully. I rip the old label off and glue white paper over the bottle so there is absolutely no doubt what is in it, how much is in it and the ratio of lye/water used.