New rebatching technique?

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Of course, I don't really have the soapmaking experience to know if this technique is really new, so if it's not, try not to laugh too hard...

So, I decided to mix part of my failed peppermint soap with the same amount of new soap. Once I calculated everything, I mixed all the fats for the new soap, and, little by little, started to mix in the grated old soap, stick blending it the best I could. That left me with sort of a very grainy, thick paste.
Then I heat it up (using a double boiler) until it got to about 130*F, and then I added the lye water and mixed it in. The result was a very thick trace, looking like the soap was mixed with sawdust.
Then, while I was starting to think I was gonna end up making another contribution to the garbage can, I decided to let it heat up, and then it's when it gets weird (at least in my uninformed view). When it hit about 150*F, the paste suddenly thinned up, to about the consistency of a light trace! :shock:
So, then I took it off the heat, and I stick blended the heck out of it. The soap lightened up quite a bit, and became completely smooth, so when it got back down to about 140*F, I added the EOs (no peppermint... :wink: ), and poured it into my mold.
I cut it today, and the soap looks much smoother than the original peppermint soap, and a little lighter. I will post pictures soon, I hope.

Now, I think this process could be further simplified, by heating up the fats to over 150*F before adding the grated old soap. I will probably try that in the future.

Now it's up to all of you to tell me if this is really a new technique...

 

[heartsong]

x

i think you kind of came up with a rebatch-c/p-hot process hybrid!

you did a little of ALL THREE processes combined! :shock:

looking forward to hearing how it all turns out!

monet

 

[unmouton]

So what were your ratios? Meaning, did you grate 1 lbs of finished soap into a new 1 lbs batch of oils/lye? Like 1:1?

I have a lilac batch that seized on me, it looks hideous, and I feel like the scent needs something else to mellow the floral. I want to try this! I haven't had much success with normal rebatches. :?

 

[Lindy]

That is so cool! I love the idea of this process thank you for sharing it! Looking forward to pics as well!

 

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thanks everybody for the replies.

Sooo...this IS really a new technique?

I used a 1:1 ratio of soap to soap. That meaning I used as much old soap as the total fats+lye+water in the new soap.

The soap is not perfect, but it looks much better than the original HP peppermint soap, and it feels (at least on my hands. I didn't have the courage to shower with it yet) amazing.

Sorry I couldn't post pics. I was thinking of asking a neighbor to lend me her camera, but I just saw some cheap digital cameras at Wal Mart, and I'm itching to buy one, so, if everything goes well, I should have some in a day or 2.

Unmouton: try it. It's actually much less work than it looks...
And let us know how it goes.

 

[Guest]

Very cool technique, necessity really is the mother of invention.

 

[unmouton]

I am going to! I cant for a few days because I have had so many tests and projects due, but after tomorrow Ill have time again. I hope the lilac FO in the old soap doesn't make the new soap seize... we'll see! I'll post back with results!

 

[Lindy]

From what I can find out you do seem to have a unique process - and the more I look at it the cooler it gets. How well does it pour? Or is it more like HP that you have to glop into the mold?

Very fascinating...

 

[kaseencook]

I think the order of steps were new, but I have read about rebatching with a new soap batter before.

Essentially adding grated soap to new batter and stick blending, then HPing the soap to melt it all in.

But I like how you melted the old soap into the oils before adding the lye to make it a more CP/HP combo!

 

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, since a promise is a debt, here's a pic:

The ones in the right are (obviously) the original peppermint soap. That's HP soap, I don't really know why it ended up being so uneven...
As you can see, the rebatched soap is much lighter, and much smoother looking. I should've probably SB'ed a little longer, but overall, I'm satisfied.

Lindy: it pours very well. I can't really tell you much, because I don't have the experience, but I can tell you it poured much easier than the original HP batch.

Kaseencook: the idea of mixing the grated soap with the oils was to avoid the time constraint of dealing with already traced soap. I wish I could take all the credit, but reality is this idea is a direct consequence of all the information you people shared in my other thread.

Anyways, I still think this method could be greatly simplified by heating the oils before mixing the grated soap. I may be experimenting on that soon. After all, I have more than enough soap to grate... :wink:

 

[kaseencook]

I think that that is an awesome idea to heat the oils and then melt the rebatch soap in!

Like you said it avoids the time constraints of quick trace. Also, I think the other benefits of this method make be that:

1. you can use less water, since the old soap goes into the hot oils.
2. the old soap may melt quicker and need less grating (I don't like grating - I end up with chunks of finger missing and a cramped wrist) because it goes into a hot oil.

Is this what you found?!

The soaps look great!!! What a great idea!!!! 8)

 

[SimplyE]

Awesome! I suck at rebatching in every sense of the word! I look forward to trying this out!!! Way to go 8)

 

[Inodoro Pereyra]

(I don't like grating - I end up with chunks of finger missing and a cramped wrist)

Yep. I just grated about 2 Kg for this batch. If anybody can relate with your statement, it's me.
Luckily enough, though, all my fingers are still intact.

Is this what you found?!

Hmmm. To be honest, I barely found what I posted at the beginning. I don't really have the knowledge or experience to know what I'm looking for.
that's the reason I'm looking forward for more experienced guys to try it, and share their (your) findings.

I suck at rebatching in every sense of the word!

For what I read, it's not you who sucks at rebatching, it's rebatching that sucks. Maybe this way it'll suck a little less...

 

[heartsong]

x

the new soaps look great!

nice edges on the bars, too! i think this is a terrific new direction for rebatching. looking forward to seeing where this path takes us!

great job! :wink:

monet

 

[xyxoxy]

I have an old batch that I screwed up with too much colorant... though just fine otherwise... so every now and again I will shred a couple of bars into a new batch for a cool color clash.

I recently tried this with an HP batch for the first time and the old shreds just immediately melted right into the new soap never to be heard from again... though overall the color did change accordingly. I think it was a combo of the high temp (did not measure but probably not as high as yours) and the very fine shreds I used.

So from this I can say that I need to do this trick only with CP except when, like you, I want to completely blend a finished batch into a new batch. I think you have a good idea to heat the oils well before adding and I would only add to use a very fine grater to shred the finished soap bars. I'm talking like angel hair pasta or shredded wheat size.

 

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thanks everybody!
It really feels great to be able to contribute something for a change.
I didn't gate the soap thin. I actually used the coarser part of a veggie grater. But it'd make sense that if you grate it thinner it'd melt into the oils faster. And then you could use the extra time to put your wrist on ice... :wink:

Anyways, I'm thinking about making another batch, maybe tomorrow.
I'll report the results.

 

[Inodoro Pereyra]

So... I guess I owe everybody an apology.

I haven't made the soap yet.
After taking the (highly disappointing) picture I posted above, I decided that my Wal Mart cheapo cam needed a calibration. So, being a hands on guy, I spent the last few days first trying to recalibrate the camera's lens, an later grafting a different lens from a security camera. To make a long story short, I just went back to Wal Mart, and bought a better camera.

So if everything goes as planned, I expect to make the batch tomorrow, and I will post the results here, hopefully, with pictures...

 

[LJA]

The soaps look GREAT!!! Looking forward to the latest pix!

 

[knicelyr]

Inodoro that soap looks awesome!

To think that beautiful soap used to be the glycerin from used cooking oil!!!

I love our BD soap!

That is a wonderful idea for rebatching. It can always be a real pain, but I see how that can work really really well.

I've noticed similar temperature issues. I think part of it has to do with our biodiesel glycerin absorbing water and becoming "bloated". Also with the coconut oil and hardening fatty acids. I usually have to keep things in the 180*F range. Recently I've been going as high as 200*F to help the pour ability of the soap.

Great going on the rebatching!

 

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, it's done!

I finally did a batch with the process I'd call (unless somebody has a better idea) "hot process rebatch".

The idea behind it was to make rebatching less work intensive, and at the same time, with any luck (we'll see tomorrow when I cut it), render a better bar of soap.

The generals of the process are:

The whole process happens above 150*F, and up to 180*F+.

There's NO GRATING!!!

Water can be reduced.

So, let's get to it. As I said, I didn't feel like grating soap, so...

I decided to dice the soap!

Then, when the oils were over the 150*F mark

I put the cubes into the oils, and let it cook, covered.

About 10 minutes later, I decided to give it a stir with a spatula

You can see the cubes have partially broken down.

About 5 minutes later, my patience ran out (I don't have much of it anyways...), so I gave it a thorough SB'ing.

As you can see, the old soap doesn't mix with the oils, but it does get ground pretty thin. At this point, the temperature was about 180*F.
Then, I took everything off the stove (but I left the mixture into the double boiler), prepared the lye water (as per Kaseencook's suggestion, I used only 30% water), and SB'ed the lye water into the mixture.

The batch lightened up some, got way smoother, and took a medium consistency. You can have an idea of the consistency in this picture, that was taken with the pot at an about 45* incline.

Then, the temperature was about 185*F, so I let it cool down (took it off the double boiler) , and when the temperature dropped to 160*F I added the EO's and SB'ed everything until it was smooth.

As you can see, the batch lightened up again, and it got to a fairly heavy trace. Then I poured it into the mold.

Now, the waiting begins...