Need help w/ Tetrasodium EDTA please

[jblaney]

I have tried using EDTA several times and now I remember why I gave up.

If someone can tell me if I'm doing something wrong, it would be greatly appreciated. I have read all the threads on using this product and no one mentioned the issue I have.

I will preface this with the fact that I'm very bad at math, so it's very possible mathematically I've done something wrong. I have Tetrasodium EDTA from LotionCrafter, NOT Disodium EDTA.

Last night I mixed my EDTA to make a 39% solution. 39 grams EDTA w/ 61 grams of distilled water. The solution was covered overnight to prevent evaporation.

Today I was going to make a 1 pound test batch. I mixed 8 grams of my 39% EDTA solution with the rest of the water for my recipe, I then added my lye. My calculation was .5 X 627 (total weight of recipe) / 39 = 8 grams. The water became thick and milky whitish. Is this normal? I'm extremely frustrated, probably more than I should be, but that's a whole other story.

Thank you!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Hi there! I have seen this too where the lye + water + EDTA = thick, white mixture.

The first time, I was pretty disconcerted and discarded it. Second time I realized it was probably normal* and I soaped with it. Third time and since then, I added the EDTA to the oils and stick blended it well before adding the lye solution. I'm sure the EDTA and lye still interact, but I don't have to deal with it directly that way.

* The information I have read says EDTA and lye don't interact. Obviously THAT is wrong!

Your math looks correct, by the way.

 

[snappyllama]

Now I'm wondering if I'm using edta correctly... I take out a portion of batch water to make my EDTA solution. Into that goes all my additives like sodium lactate, milk powders, sugar, etc. Then I combine it into my oils before adding my lye solution. So far, the results have seemed peachy.

Should I be adding edta into lye solution directly? I like to keep a "additive" solution to make sure I don't miss anything and that things are totally dissolved and mixed thoroughly into my oils.

 

[DeeAnna]

No, Snappy, I think you're fine. You can use the powder directly if you can measure it accurately. Just bear in mind the powder is hygroscopic so it will absorb water from the air. Keep the container of powder tightly closed when not in use.

 

[snappyllama]

No, Snappy, I think you're fine. You can use the powder directly if you can measure it accurately. Just bear in mind the powder is hygroscopic so it will absorb water from the air. Keep the container of powder tightly closed when not in use.

Thanks! It's my most recent additive so I question myself most on it. So far, the decrease in soap scum and ease of getting bubbles is amazing.

I like to double ziplock bag all my powders just to be sure. I've had ripped SLSA bags before... Never again if I can help it. I swear I'm still finding powder a year later.

 

[jblaney]

Thank you DeeAnna!

I feel better now, but I did not make the soap since I didn't want to waste oils and FO until I knew for sure this was ok. I will probably toss the mixture and mix my 39% solution into my oils instead so I don't have to see the weird thick milky lye water. I don't like it.

Thanks for letting me know my calculations were correct. I got all the info from your detailed posts! You are a gem and I'm so happy I can come to SMF and have great people to troubleshoot with that know much more than I do.

 

[DeeAnna]

Glad I could help!

 

[nframe]

I mix my EDTA, sugar and salt in a little water, warm it up so the sugar melts and add it to the oils. I then stick-blend it and the liquid goes white and creamy. I just thought that was normal. I then add the lye mixture and soap as usual. The soap turns out fine.

 

[DeeAnna]

When you stick blend a water based solution into oils, you get a temporary emulsion just like shaking up vinegar and oil for a salad dressing. I see that too and that's totally normal.

What happens when EDTA and lye are mixed together is different. It looks more like white gravy or pudding. It's a chemical reaction between the two, and it happens on it's own without any high energy mixing.

 

[nframe]

Thank you for that. You are an amazing source of knowledge!

 

[IrishLass]

I added my 39% EDTA solution into my lye water only once.....and it was enough to show me that I wouldn't be doing that again. lol I ended up with lye solution similar to what DeeAnna mentioned- a milky-white pudding-ish substance. Ever since then, I have added it to my oils either before or after adding the lye solution, and it works great.


IrishLass