My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top :( Help please

[Juliana14]

Hello, I'm new here and I'm very interested in handmade soap. But, I am very desperate with my first experiment, my soap didn't turn out like what I want. My soap has a oily layer in the top and the outer texture was ugly. Here is the picture of my soap:

1. after 24 hours

2. after I remove the oily layer

2 experiments with the same results.

I use the following recipe to make my soap:
Coconut oil 128 gram
Shea Butter 13 gram
Palm Oil 85 gram
Olive oil 227 gram
Water 176 gram
NaOH 70 gram
Goat Milk 40 ml
Fragrance Oil 20 ml (orange and white olive)

In my country, coconut and palm oil are available with liquid version so in my recipe I used coconut and palm oil in liquid meanwhile the recipe's above was using cold-pressed coconut and palm oil. So, I want to know if the measurement of liquid coconut oil same with cold-pressed coconut oil?

Help me to figure out what's wrong with my soap?

I also want to re-batch this soap but still don't know very well about re-batching process.

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

It looks like you've gotten separation, probably from not getting a true trace or overheating from the Goats Milk.. If you've thrown out the liquid on top, I doubt you can rebatch, since you won't know which oil is missing or how much free lye is still available.also, is that pan in the picture Stainless Steel or Aluminum? I hope it's Stainless...Aluminum and lye make a bad pair!
By my calculations using fractionated Coconut Oil (since you said it was liquid), with full water and a 5% superfat, you needed 172.14 grams liquid/water and 70.43 grams NaOH. With a small batch like this, measurements are super important. The extra 4 grams of water plus the 40 ml of Goats Milk probably didn't help with trace. Otherwise, your recipe looks ok: a little high on cleansing and INS, but not terrible. For this small of a batch, and not knowing how much oil you removed, I'd trash it and start over. I hate to do that, but sometimes that's the safest plan.

 

[Juliana14]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

if there is any possibility that I didn't stir enough before mold the soap?

In my process making this soap, I didn't use thermometer to measure the lye+water temperature (I just estimate it) and after that mix the oil with lye+water liquid. I also didn't use blender/mixer in the process. Am I wrong by doing that? Please kindly advice.

@Alchemy&Ashes: So I need to decrease the water and increase the lye? and how about the goat milk?
What's the meaning of INS? I'm sorry, I'm new in making soap so I still couldn't understand several terms.

Can I use the soap if I've already throw away the oily layer or I still need to dispose all of it?

Thank you for the input , it's very helpful.

 

[Hausfrau007]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

Juliana, it sounds to me like you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Soap-making is a science where you have to measure accurately (not mix volume and weight measures) and be careful not to mess with temperatures, at least not until you're better at it. Read a little more, learn what you can online and this forum, and go splurge on a stick blender.

My advice is to try a recipe with fewer ingredients that doesn't contain milk once you've familiarized yourself a little better with the task at hand. Soap making is a total blast, so throw this batch in the trash, the past is the past.

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

if there is any possibility that I didn't stir enough before mold the soap?

In my process making this soap, I didn't use thermometer to measure the lye+water temperature (I just estimate it) and after that mix the oil with lye+water liquid. I also didn't use blender/mixer in the process. Am I wrong by doing that? Please kindly advice.

@Alchemy&Ashes: So I need to decrease the water and increase the lye? and how about the goat milk?
What's the meaning of INS? I'm sorry, I'm new in making soap so I still couldn't understand several terms.

Can I use the soap if I've already throw away the oily layer or I still need to dispose all of it?

Thank you for the input , it's very helpful.

Yes, your soap probably separated because you didn't stir enough (reach trace) before molding the soap. You will be able to avoid this better by using a stick blender. It's possible to soap without one, of course, but it certainly makes the job easier :wink:

It's ok to not use a thermometer, but if you're new to soaping, I would suggest you do so just until you get the hang of determining a good temperature to mix your lye solution and oils. Its important to remember to pour your lye solution into your oils, not the other way around. Also, make sure your oils are not hotter than your lye solution to avoid a volcano :shock: . I like to soap around 110 degrees F. I have never had separation occur when doing so.

Your lye amount was correct, but your liquid amount was high. This makes it take longer to reach trace and begin saponification because of a weaker lye solution. It will also make it take longer to firm up in the mold and cure. The more water that needs to evaporate, the longer it will take your soap to harden during cure, and an result in warped bars.

You could use Goat Milk in place of your liquid if you prefer, or split between water and milk. Soaping with milk can be a little tricky, so if I were you, I'd try a soap recipe without milk first and once you've successfully made a batch of soap, then you can move on to "the harder stuff" :wink:

INS is a number value applied to soap quality based on SAP and Iodine value. The "acceptable range" is 136-165. You can find this on most lye calculators that apply number values to the qualities of the soap, like hardness, conditioning, etc. I use SoapCalcPro, but there's many available on the Internet, like on Brambleberry.com or MMS.

As I stated before, I would NOT use that soap if you threw out the oily top layer. To save it, you would have needed to rebatch with the entire contents of the mold. Otherwise there's no way to know what oils you lost or what lye is remaining.

I hope that answers your questions

 

[Juliana14]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

Juliana, it sounds to me like you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Soap-making is a science where you have to measure accurately (not mix volume and weight measures) and be careful not to mess with temperatures, at least not until you're better at it. Read a little more, learn what you can online and this forum, and go splurge on a stick blender.

My advice is to try a recipe with fewer ingredients that doesn't contain milk once you've familiarized yourself a little better with the task at hand. Soap making is a total blast, so throw this batch in the trash, the past is the past.

You just make me realize that I don't take much effort in this
but I really appreciate it and before I starting my second experience, I will prepare it with full equipments.

About the thermometer, can you recommend me which thermometer is better use for soap making?


@Alchemy&Ashes : Can you teach me how to measure the percentage of the ingredients because for the second experiment, I just want to use small amount of the ingredients. I ever tried lye calculator but I still confused about it.

Yap, I will not use goat milk again until I can make the real one soap

Really love the advice, thanks :wink: :wink:

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

.....Also, make sure your oils are not hotter than your lye solution to avoid a volcano :shock: . I like to soap around 110 degrees F. I have never had separation occur when doing so.....

Based on your explanation, I need to heat up my oil mixed? what if all of my oil has already in liquid form? Should I heat it up?

thanks

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

If your oils are already liquids, then no, you don't HAVE TO heat them...but it does help to have your oils and lye within 10-20 degrees of each other. Some soapers use the Room Temperature method, where your oils and lye solution are both room temperature at the time they are mixed together. I have done this, with the exception of heating my Palm Oil and Coconut Oil until they were liquid, added them to my other oils, and then letting them cool to room temperature. I still prefer to soap at 110 degrees F or around there.

Where did you get your recipe from?

 

[Juliana14]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

Oh i see..It's more clear now.
So I need to pay attention to the Lye's temperature (watch it if already 110 degrees F so It's the time to mix it with the oil, right?)

I got my recipe from Youtube and I just being stupid not pay attention to the detail process likes temperature and the mixing process.
Can you advice any simple recipe for me and of course with a small amount?

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

I hope I'm not assuming, but think there may be a little language barrier? Where are you from? I'm guessing from your previous post you are not in the US? I think it's so awesome to be able to communicate with people all over the world with the click of a button

I think you need to do some more research on the soap making process and lye calculators and learn the WHY's before the HOW's, if that makes sense :wink:

I can give you an idea of a super simple recipe that yields a great basic bar of soap. I will give it in percentages instead of amounts, so that you can adjust it to any size you want:
Olive Oil 50%
Coconut Oil 25%
Palm Oil 25%

Go to SoapCalc.net
1. Starting in the upper left, select NaOH
2. Next, choose your unit of measurement where it says Weight of Oils (You want to use grams)
3. Choose Water As Weight of Oils 38% (this is the default setting)
4. Choose your Superfat percentage (5% is the default setting and is fine for this recipe)
5. Click on the drop down box with the oils, and double click the three oils above, then enter your weight of each oil in grams in the appropriate box.
6. Click Calculate Recipe
7. Then click View/Print Recipe...this will open a new tab and give you proper water and lye amounts. It will also give you a detailed list of your recipe qualities and composition.

A few websites you may find helpful are millersoap.com, soapmakingessentials.com, and teachsoap.com

 

[maiseycat]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

I got my recipe from Youtube and I just being stupid not pay attention to the detail process likes temperature and the mixing process.
Can you advice any simple recipe for me and of course with a small amount?

Please don't think you're stupid. Everyone makes mistakes, including a lot of people here. You're just new, and learning

 

[Juliana14]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

@Alchemy&Ashes: Ya, I'm not from US, I come from Indonesia . Nice to have chat with all of you. I'm sorry if my English isn't very good because I barely use it in daily conversation, and if you find that my English language lead to disrespectful words, please kindly correct it

I've already following your lye calc's instruction and I found it more easy by following your explanation (*thanks). I will search more about this soap making.
Then I want to know, when I need to measure the temperature?

@maiseycat: thank you very much for your full support. Yes, I'm still learning and hopefully I get more support from this forum

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

@Alchemy&Ashes: Ya, I'm not from US, I come from Indonesia . Nice to have chat with all of you. I'm sorry if my English isn't very good because I barely use it in daily conversation, and if you find that my English language lead to disrespectful words, please kindly correct it

I only asked because I was concerned I wasn't making myself clear...I was more concerned with my English than yours!

As for temperatures, try that recipe at 110 degrees F for both lye solution and oils. You can use a candy thermometer or an infrared (?) laser thermometer.

 

[dianne70]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

Mistakes are how we all learn Find out as much information as you can first, and then use a very simple small recipe like alchemy and ashes suggests. Soap making is addictive...once you get the hang of it, you won't be able to stop! There are so many good websites that have good information....just always use a soap calculator if they have recipes...you never know if they are correct or not. Candy making thermometers are the best to use. Oh, and like Maisycat said...never think you are stupid

 

[Hausfrau007]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

Juliana, you should be very proud of yourself, even if your first soap is a mess. I plunge head-first into most new ventures myself and learn from my mistakes. Good for you!

 

[Juliana14]

Re: My soap turn weird with oil layer on the top Help ple

Thank you all for the support. Sorry I've been inactive for a while. I'm on duty last week.

By the way, I'm still looking for a good stick blender because stick blender is rarely use in my country. After browsing for a while and I got this 3 pictures from online shopping

Name of the brands:
1. Aletta
Made in USA
220 Watt

2. Dodawa
Made in China
200 Watt

3. Kind Future
Made in China
150 Watt

Can all of you give recommendation which brands are good enough?

and also about digital scale, which brands do you usually use?

Thanks

 

[Meena]

Hello, I'm new here and I'm very interested in handmade soap. But, I am very desperate with my first experiment, my soap didn't turn out like what I want. My soap has a oily layer in the top and the outer texture was ugly.
....
Help me to figure out what's wrong with my soap?

Hi Juliana, I just found a 2017 post that talks about this issue. Cutting to the chase -- did you scrape down the sides of the bowl when you were mixing your soap batter?

I don't know how to link a post, so here is the part that might apply to your oil layer:

"Don't go crazy with the stick blender. Once things are fully emulsified it's not really useful any more unless you're trying to mix something into the batter - fragrance, color, etc. Just standing there watching it while stirring gently is often just as fast as running the SB.
"A corollary to the above: Scrape the sides of the bowl while using the SB! (Not doing this bit me on my first two batches.) Using the SB and stirring around with it like you see in the videos has a tendency to leave a layer of oil at the edges of the bowl. It's a laminar layer that the turbulent flow from the blender won't touch. You need to scrape it off the edges into the bulk batter with a spatula. If you don't and wait to scrape the bowl into the mold, you'll end up with this unmixed oil as a slick on top of your batter."

posted by BrewerGeorge 3-15-17 in this section of the forum:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...ou-give-to-your-beginning-soaping-self.62916/



oh crap, i just noticed this thread is from TWENTY TWELVE!!! aaarghhhh....

 

[Relle]

Locking this, please read the date of the post you are replying to, it's not hard to do. This person you replied to hasn't been here for 7 yrs.