My soap burns

[Sauboon]

Hi,

I've been making soap for the past 5 years. My customers say the soap is nice except it burns their below the waist area. I use Thesage.com lye calc. The soap feels really nice on the skin but that burning is not easy to deal with. I've tried superfatting however I notice the soap gets sticky after about six months if I put too much oil or extra butters. Does anyone have any suggestions. It's really affecting my business. I use coconut oil, olive oil, palm oil, sunflower and soy.

 

[happyshopper]

Is it more than one customer who is describing this? If so, I don't mean to be rude but you are selling soap that burns!!

I live in the uk and to sell soap here you have to have a safety assessment (I believe it is the same for all of the EU). This costs a lot of money so means that soap making will always only be a hobby for me.

Whilst in some ways I am annoyed as I will never be at a stage where I could make a few extra pounds from something I am hoping to continue to enjoy, it does mean on the other side of it as a customer I would never be able to purchase any thing that would be used on mine or my family's skin that hasn't been safety assessed to avoid the issue you describe.

I do hope you manage to resolve your issue for both your and your customer's sake.

 

[hmlove1218]

What percentage of FO/EO are you using ppo? What is your SF level? How long has this complaint been going on? Have you checked the accuracy of your scale since it started? Are you zap testing each batch for safety?

 

[Sauboon]

What percentage of FO/EO are you using ppo? What is your SF level? How long has this complaint been going on? Have you checked the accuracy of your scale since it started? Are you zap testing each batch for safety?

Yes, I've checked the accuracy. It's not all the customers. only a small amount. I do zap test if I do hot processed. SF was 5%.

 

[kchaystack]

As hmlove asked, what are the essential oils/fragrance oils in the soap, and at what % are you adding them. Peppermint, eucalyptus, clove, and a few others might irritate skin.

But you really need to post a full recipe with all additives so the experts on the board can chime in.

 

[Sauboon]

My soap irritates

Not all the customers say this. Only a few but I want to correct this. Many are very satisfied. If it were all I would not make soap. I am not selling it in stores. I don't mean to be rude but I find it strange that you are not aware that many people sell soap that may not have a safety assessment. Etsy, farmers markets, etc. Maybe I shouldn't use the word burn. Rather it can irritate sensitive areas.

Is it more than one customer who is describing this? If so, I don't mean to be rude but you are selling soap that burns!!

I live in the uk and to sell soap here you have to have a safety assessment (I believe it is the same for all of the EU). This costs a lot of money so means that soap making will always only be a hobby for me.

Whilst in some ways I am annoyed as I will never be at a stage where I could make a few extra pounds from something I am hoping to continue to enjoy, it does mean on the other side of it as a customer I would never be able to purchase any thing that would be used on mine or my family's skin that hasn't been safety assessed to avoid the issue you describe.

I do hope you manage to resolve your issue for both your and your customer's sake.

 

[Susie]

I instantly thought it was the EOs. Please do post the whole recipe, including amounts and which EOs, and any additives.

Some ladies are more sensitive to products "there" than others. Even plain soap may be too irritating.

 

[lionprincess00]

Ok. This isn't scientific or anything but...
I stopped using regular soap because of this exact issue. It burned, in places, bad. I started using dove (doesn't it have a lower Ph?) Anyway I used sensitive skin dove and never had another problem.

Introduce using my own cp soap.

Some bother me (like 2 I've made) and most don't for the most part, but they can. If I clean super fast I don't have a problem, but if not it does burn a little.

My opinion is the fragrances are the culprit, or honestly the Ph of soap. I may just be a tad sensitive to it in a region. I have no other answers other than that. Advice? Don't clean as though your a doctor going for surgery, clean thoroughly but quickly. Rise completely! Any leftover residue will start to irritate. I should probably make a scent free soap. That would solve my issue of fragrance vs Ph levels.
And just saw Susie...yes, I think I am just one of those sensitive ladies, and I dont think I'm alone.

Edit to say I understand what you're saying. Burning as it feels like burning, but in essence it's irritating the area. Again, not so uncommon imo.

 

[Sonya-m]

I don't mean to be rude but I find it strange that you are not aware that many people sell soap that may not have a safety assessment. Etsy, farmers markets, etc. Maybe I shouldn't use the word burn. Rather it can irritate sensitive areas.

They may well do but that doesn't mean it's ok to. Here in the UK you shouldn't be selling without a safety assessment

 

[boyago]

Not all the customers say this. Only a few but I want to correct this. Many are very satisfied. If it were all I would not make soap. I am not selling it in stores. I don't mean to be rude but I find it strange that you are not aware that many people sell soap that may not have a safety assessment. Etsy, farmers markets, etc. Maybe I shouldn't use the word burn. Rather it can irritate sensitive areas.

Are you in the states? Happy Shopper is posting from the UK, all EU countries are much stricter with soap sales than elsewhere. Have you had this feedback on all your soaps or a few in particular?

My first thought was that it could be your EO/FO as well.

 

[happyshopper]

Yes I must admit I was very surprised that in other countries you are allowed to sell soap without a safety certificate (I am sure you would also be surprised about some of the practices over here compared to yours)

I get what you mean now when you say irritate rather than burn! Any soap can do this if you have sensitive skin, whether handmade or shop brought. Certainly if its not all customers saying this, its just those with sensitive skin having an issue. To be fair to you, they would already know they have sensitive skin so should not really be purchasing any kind of soap that contains fragrance/additives, or soap that isn't specifically sold for sensitive skin.

I am lucky my skin is like ox hide, nothing seems to effect it

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think that the point being made with the Safety Assessment in the EU is that there is always a final check that nothing in the recipe is known to cause issues - you wouldn't be able to get a recipe signed off with 10% clove EO, for example. But there is nothing to stop someone in countries with less regulation selling a soap with it. Whether or not more or less regulation is a good thing or a bad thing is a discussion for elsewhere!

As for the burning issue (pun most certainly intended!) I also think it could be EO, but agree that the whole recipe is needed - if it was the EO I would expect more people to react to it, so it might well be something that seems innocent enough but that can cause issues. Maybe some people are fine with a certain % of CO in general, it's borderline maybe, but in certain places causes the issue. Until we have the full info, it's a little bit hard to say.

 

[Dorymae]

Okay down to brass tacks. I am willing to bet you are using an EO or blend that contains one or more of the following, peppermint, spearmint, wintergreen, really anything in the mint family, menthol, eucalyptus and or cinnamon.

All of these need to be used in smaller percentages than the average do to compounds within the EO that make our skin feel hot or cool. If used in large amounts they will cause a tingling or burning sensation in the private areas.

Even if you are using small amount, some people are simply more sensitive to the EO than others.

One more thing, you said you zap test when you HP. Why are you not Zap testing for CP? If you don't you could get lye heavy soap but that would effect everyone.

 

[cmzaha]

When I use the EO's that Dorymae mentioned above I put a warning on my label, that they can cause burning/ tingling in sensitive areas. I am one that cannot use handmade soap other than m&p on certain areas including my face. My face actually gets no soap 90% of the time. It does not matter if the soap is 1 week old, 1 yr old fragranced, non fragranced, low or high cleansing number, high or low superfat. In other words, nether regions get washed with m&p. I really think it is the ph, as far as my face goes I have just never used soap on it. It gets either Cetaphil or water. I have had a few people ask if soap can bother certain areas and I tell them yep. Soap is not for everyone as much as many soapmakers like to think it is. If it is just a couple of people I would guess they are sensitive, it is it a lot of customers I would rethink my recipe/recipes and not sell until it is figured out.

 

[dixiedragon]

I agree regarding posting your recipe, additives, etc.

also, how long do you let the soap age?

It's also possible that these customers are just sensitive to something in particular - FOs, EOs, coconut oil, etc. Honestly, it's not a great idea for ladies to soap up our lady parts - messes with the pH.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Apropos to a separate discussion we are having, I am curious as to the percentage of soy and sunflower you are using.

Lye soap stings the eyes because it has a high pH compared to say a detergent bar. However, soaping with a lot of linoleic oils will make the soap even more alkaline. I haven't specifically heard of that hurting the nether regions, but I imagine it could.

Your description of the soap getting sticky after 6 months with a bigger lye discount also makes me wonder about the proportion of these oils.

 

[Sauboon]

My soap irritates

Thank you so much for understanding. I will take your advice.

Ok. This isn't scientific or anything but...
I stopped using regular soap because of this exact issue. It burned, in places, bad. I started using dove (doesn't it have a lower Ph?) Anyway I used sensitive skin dove and never had another problem.

Introduce using my own cp soap.

Some bother me (like 2 I've made) and most don't for the most part, but they can. If I clean super fast I don't have a problem, but if not it does burn a little.

My opinion is the fragrances are the culprit, or honestly the Ph of soap. I may just be a tad sensitive to it in a region. I have no other answers other than that. Advice? Don't clean as though your a doctor going for surgery, clean thoroughly but quickly. Rise completely! Any leftover residue will start to irritate. I should probably make a scent free soap. That would solve my issue of fragrance vs Ph levels.
And just saw Susie...yes, I think I am just one of those sensitive ladies, and I dont think I'm alone.

Edit to say I understand what you're saying. Burning as it feels like burning, but in essence it's irritating the area. Again, not so uncommon imo.

 

[Sauboon]

Thank you for your concern

I agree regarding posting your recipe, additives, etc.

also, how long do you let the soap age?

It's also possible that these customers are just sensitive to something in particular - FOs, EOs, coconut oil, etc. Honestly, it's not a great idea for ladies to soap up our lady parts - messes with the pH.

 

[Sauboon]

2 months to age. And I think you are right. It may be the essential oils

 

[Susie]

lionprincess00, you know I am a nurse, right? So, when I tell you that most women would be wise to use nothing but water on mucous membranes due to pH disruption, I am not just saying that to be a rebel, right? I am certain that I am going to get a chorus of nay-sayers here, but truly gals, that is like a self cleaning oven. Rinsing is OK, but leave everything else not prescribed by a doctor out.

(Mods-if you think this is over the line, please just delete it. I debated long and hard on the best wording, so if I did not succeed, just get rid of it.)