My recent market analysis

[Carl]

I've been doing a lot of analysis of the soap business lately. I have purchased multiple bars from local craft shows/soap shops and from Etsy. Because I was just curious about what other people are doing and how they go about doing it. I've compared my knowledge of soaping (things I've learned from this site, reading several books, and personal experience) to what I see and the real world.

And my conclusion is: There are a lot of sellers that are just flat out liars.

Let me start

• Not 1 bar that I had purchased weighed what it said on the label. NOT ONE! The 5.0 oz bar weighted 4.3 ounces. All the 4.5 oz bars were in the high 3's with exception to 1 which was 4.1.
• People sell their soap labeled as "All Natural" when it contains Fragrance Oils and Mica powders. This is very common.
  
• Most people don't list out the entire ingredient list like they should. They just put Mica on the label, but they don't break it down into "Polyerster-3, Tin Dioxide, etc."
• People make medicinal claims about their soap all the time; cures dry skin; cures eczema, and everything else. They even call it dry skin soap.
  
• I spoke to one girl who sells only hot process. Her reasoning is that there is no cure time, so she can put it up for sale immediately.

And these are people that are selling a lot of soap at the top of the Etsy search results etc.

Of all the bars that I tested as a "Competitive Analysis," I must admit that they were all really nice bars of soap. It's just the misleading marketing that gets me!

There's my rant, LOL.

Thanks for listening

 

[cmzaha]

Guess you need to come to my booth sometime, except I am in CA. I weight each bar after approx 3 month cure before packaging and labeling then deduct 10%. I label all ingredients in order and make no claims. I hate vendors that do anything less, but many many do

 

[Carl]

Guess you need to come to my booth sometime, except I am in CA. I weight each bar after approx 3 month cure before packaging and labeling then deduct 10%. I label all ingredients in order and make no claims. I hate vendors that do anything less, but many many do

Too bad everyone cannot be like that. Your 3 months is 8 weeks for me. I want to label my bars as 4.5 ounces and anything less goes into the discount pile.

It's hard to compete and make a marketable listing when everyone else is flat out lying. The weight doesn't bother me as much as the "Natural" claims or the medicinal claims. At least with the weight you could adjust your bar size, etc and still be honest. But when someone is selling "Banana Mango Strawberry" with fragrance oil in the ingredient list and calling it All Natural, nothing you can do about that.
Only way you can compete with that person is to lie yourself (which I don't want to do).

 

[Cellador]

I went to a market recently & sniffed around the soap booth. She told me the bars were all natural and they only used EOs. I smiled as I sniffed, because I know that the sandalwood or vanilla I'm smelling is not from an EO. I even asked her about the vanilla,"I didn't think there was a vanilla essential oil..." and she continued to claim there was an EO but it was hard to find. Anyway, I thanked her and, of course, didn't buy anything.
I cannot stand liars!

 

[shunt2011]

I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing you can do about the liars and cheaters. I no longer worry about others. I focus on my products and keep my integrity with honesty. I weigh all my soaps before packaging and round down. My soaps start at about 5.5 oz. I list 5 oz and if they are below that I put them in my discount bin. I see it all the time with people making claims. Even when customers come in asking for poison ivy soap or other skin specific soaps I tell them right up front that it's all a marketing scam and soap is soap. It washes off and gets you clean. Then I tell them why my soap is good. It's well formulated, doesn't strip all the natural oils from your skin and is just a darn good soap.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

I round my bars down to the nearest whole number--most of the bars I sell for 4oz are closer to 4.5 or higher. but to be honest I am the only one I have seen around here that even bothers to put a weight on the soap, that includes the handmade in the stores. it bothers me somewhat but I can only make sure I do what I am supposed to. the one craft fair I was at this summer though I was kinda ticked--I was busy setting up and this lady was walking around with sample of GM lotion telling people it cures psoriasis and so does her soaps--she stopped and asked if I wanted to try it and said it would cure my psoriasis--and when I told her it would not she saw a burn mark on my arm and said well it will heal that right away. then she proceeded to tell me she would sell me her products including her soap and I could sell them as my own, I bit my tongue and just told her I thought that was a good idea and I would have to get ahold of her (what a twit) unfortunately her booth was before mine and I spent some time explaining to people that stopped wanting to see "my" soap that cures psoriasis that soap or lotion would not cure it etc etc etc

 

[cmzaha]

I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing you can do about the liars and cheaters. I no longer worry about others. I focus on my products and keep my integrity with honesty. I weigh all my soaps before packaging and round down. My soaps start at about 5.5 oz. I list 5 oz and if they are below that I put them in my discount bin. I see it all the time with people making claims. Even when customers come in asking for poison ivy soap or other skin specific soaps I tell them right up front that it's all a marketing scam and soap is soap. It washes off and gets you clean. Then I tell them why my soap is good. It's well formulated, doesn't strip all the natural oils from your skin and is just a darn good soap.

I do exactly as you do other than my weight labeling. All my soaps will weigh as my labels are maked or more in a year. I periodically do checks.

 

[SoaperForLife]

I weigh all my soaps before packaging and round down. My soaps start at about 5.5 oz. I list 5 oz and if they are below that I put them in my discount bin. I see it all the time with people making claims. Even when customers come in asking for poison ivy soap or other skin specific soaps I tell them right up front that it's all a marketing scam and soap is soap. It washes off and gets you clean. Then I tell them why my soap is good. It's well formulated, doesn't strip all the natural oils from your skin and is just a darn good soap.

I also round down my soaps - most are 4.5 oz. when I wrap and I mark them at 4 oz. to allow for shrinkage. And yeah, I've had the poison ivy soap requests before as well as the soap for kitchens (odor eliminator). I've also had requests for other types of soap that have led me on quests which is always fun. My all time most hated request is from the people who ask me if my soaps are made with goat's milk (and I'm sorry if you are reading this and make goat's milk soap).

 

[Lin19687]

My soaps are about 5.5 oz after cure, I label as 5 oz

FYI, I list on my label 'Mica ' and Fragrance as I think most here do.

 

[amd]

Last night I was relabeling some of my older soaps, so out of curiosity I weighed them as I went. For the most part most of mine were 20g over the label weight, but there were a few that were only 5g over... but still all were older and many of those soaps are 2+ years old.

Most people don't list out the entire ingredient list like they should. They just put Mica on the label, but they don't break it down into "Polyerster-3, Tin Dioxide, etc."

is this a requirement? I label mine "Skin Safe Color". I wouldn't know where to start if I had to label my soaps as stated above.

 

[LilyJo]

Last night I was relabeling some of my older soaps, so out of curiosity I weighed them as I went. For the most part most of mine were 20g over the label weight, but there were a few that were only 5g over... but still all were older and many of those soaps are 2+ years old.


is this a requirement? I label mine "Skin Safe Color". I wouldn't know where to start if I had to label my soaps as stated above.

Not sure about the US but we have to use an approved CI colour number name which in think already incorporates the various mica components

 

[amd]

@LilyJo, I suspected as much for EU. Out of curiosity (and OT, my apologies) do colors sold in EU provide the color number name or is that something you find out on your own, by assessment... or other? The OP is stateside, which is what made me curious. I can't remember coming across that specific labeling criteria - but I will admit that I have forgotten a lot in 4 years and am constantly having to refresh my memory.

 

[TheGecko]

Let me start:

1. Not 1 bar that I had purchased weighed what it said on the label. NOT ONE! The 5.0 oz bar weighted 4.3 ounces. All the 4.5 oz bars were in the high 3's with exception to 1 which was 4.1.
2. People sell their soap labeled as "All Natural" when it contains Fragrance Oils and Mica powders. This is very common.
   
3. Most people don't list out the entire ingredient list like they should. They just put Mica on the label, but they don't break it down into "Polyerster-3, Tin Dioxide, etc."
4. People make medicinal claims about their soap all the time; cures dry skin; cures eczema, and everything else. They even call it dry skin soap.
   
5. I spoke to one girl who sells only hot process. Her reasoning is that there is no cure time, so she can put it up for sale immediately.

1. It could be that their soap is so old that they didn't bother to reweigh it or they just assumed that xx size bar should weigh xx oz. I just printed out labels for all my products for the craft fair except that I left the "oz/gram" blank and will hand write it after I weigh everything. The majority of the soap I am selling has been curing for 8 to 16 weeks so I will round down.

2. The broadest definition of a natural product is anything that is produced by life, and that includes biotic materials (e.g. wood, silk), bio-based materials (e.g. bioplastics, cornstarch), bodily fluids (e.g. milk, plant exudates), and other materials that were once found in living organisms (e.g. soil, coal).

3. Actually...if it's a true soap, you don't have to list your ingredients because it falls under the Fair Packaging and Label Act and not the FDA. It would fall under the FDA if you made a cosmetic claim (e.g. moisturizing) or drug claim (e.g. treats skin conditions such as acne or eczema). With that said, folks in the US have been condition to expect to see a list of Ingredients on the label and so that is what I do, but since I make no claims other than it is 'soap', I don't get into detail with regards to the exact scents and colors I use and instead use a 'may contain' statement. I will note additives like Walnut Shells, Pumice, Coffee Grounds, etc.

4. According to the FDA website: If it’s a cosmetic, it’s regulated by FDA. Neither the product nor its ingredients need approval by FDA, except for any color additives it contains. It is your responsibility to make sure your product is safe for consumers when it is used as intended, and to make sure it is properly labeled. You don’t need to register your company or file your product formulations with FDA, although we do encourage you to participate in our Voluntary Cosmetic Registration Program. If it’s a drug, it’s regulated by FDA. It must comply with the regulations (called “monographs”) for certain categories of non-prescription drugs or requirements for new drug approval or. You will need to register your firm and list your products with FDA.

5. She's not wrong. While it takes 24 to 48 hours for Hot Process soap to fully cool down and harden, once it does it can be used. Technically you can use Cold Process soap once it has saponified and passed the zap test, but it will be a very soft soap and won't last very long. What curing mainly does is to harden the bar by allowing more water to evaporate and the harder the bar, the longer it lasts (providing you let it dry between uses).

 

[dixiedragon]

It does irritate me when people call their soap "natural" with scents like dragon's blood, red velvet cake and blue raspberry.

Not that I sell much, maybe 1 show a year, but I just put "color" on mine.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

@LilyJo, I suspected as much for EU. Out of curiosity (and OT, my apologies) do colors sold in EU provide the color number name or is that something you find out on your own, by assessment... or other? The OP is stateside, which is what made me curious. I can't remember coming across that specific labeling criteria - but I will admit that I have forgotten a lot in 4 years and am constantly having to refresh my memory.

The distributor supplies MSDS and it lists the INCI names. One of the colorants I use is Blackberry Mica and the full list of ingredients is Mica, Titanium Dioxide, Tin Oxide and Iron Oxide. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the labeling requirements for the EU. I don't know if a general listing like Mica is acceptable or if each ingredient needs to be listed. Same goes for FOs. If I have to list each thing out, I'm either going to need bigger labels or a smaller font.

 

[LilyJo]

The distributor supplies MSDS and it lists the INCI names. One of the colorants I use is Blackberry Mica and the full list of ingredients is Mica, Titanium Dioxide, Tin Oxide and Iron Oxide. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the labeling requirements for the EU. I don't know if a general listing like Mica is acceptable or if each ingredient needs to be listed. Same goes for FOs. If I have to list each thing out, I'm either going to need bigger labels or a smaller font.

If you are selling your cosmetic assessor will give you the labelling/ingredients list. As far as I know you have to list the CI colour number not each mica ingredient and with FO you have to list the allergens separately.

 

[Lin19687]

@TheGecko IF you put Ingredients on your Label, then you MUST use the rules for labeling.... all things in the order of weight used.
Anyone that thinks other wise is sorely mistaken.
'may contain' is not allowed if you are listing ingredients.

I believe Mica/Color/Fragrance can be listed as such.


As for HP being able to use once cooled, sure, so can CP after a few days (so long as you KNOW for a fact that the Saponification process is truly done) But you will have one crappy soap that no one wants to use again... unless you already have alligator skin lol. Oh and HP used before a good 8 week cure will not last long at all. It really does need that time to get harder.

 

[TheGecko]

@TheGecko IF you put Ingredients on your Label, then you MUST use the rules for labeling.... all things in the order of weight used. Anyone that thinks other wise is sorely mistaken.

Since true soap is exempt you can legally list your ingredients any way you want them, BUTT, you would run the risk of deceptive labeling practices if because of the way you list your ingredients...folks think your soap is primarily made with Cocoa Butter because you listed it first, when in fact it only contains a small amount thereof. So BEST practice for labeling in that instance is to list your ingredients in descending order of predominance. In my case that would be Olive Oil, Water, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil (RSPO), Sodium Hydroxide, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Castor Oil, Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay. Technically I don't have to include the last two since they are less than 1%.

A second way of labeling, since true soap is exempt and because folks can be naive when it comes to how soap is made and so freak out when they see 'Sodium Hydroxide' or that you have a LOT of 'water', you can use “Saponified oils of ___." In my case that would be "Saponified oils of Olive Oil, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil (RSPO), Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter and Castor Oil."

'may contain' is not allowed if you are listing ingredients. I believe Mica/Color/Fragrance can be listed as such.

I didn't say it was, I was clear to say: "I don't get into detail with regards to the exact scents and colors I use and instead use a 'may contain' statement." The reason for ME doing this is while I use the same recipe for all my regular soap (I also make a Goat Milk Soap), I don't always add scents and colors and so I can simple print out a box of labels all at once instead of having to customize both labels for each batch of soap.

I also said: "I will note additives like Walnut Shells, Pumice, Coffee Grounds, etc." And will go a step further to say that I think it's important to state your additive in case of allergies or sensitivities to those ingredients.

As for HP being able to use once cooled, sure, so can CP after a few days (so long as you KNOW for a fact that the Saponification process is truly done) But you will have one crappy soap that no one wants to use again... unless you already have alligator skin lol. Oh and HP used before a good 8 week cure will not last long at all. It really does need that time to get harder.

Which is what I said.

It does irritate me when people call their soap "natural" with scents like dragon's blood, red velvet cake and blue raspberry.

Before you get too irritated, you should perhaps find out how those scents are made; whether they are made from synthetic compounds or from isolates (a single scent molecule). While an Essential Oil is called after the plant it is extracted from, Fragrance Oils made from isolates can be called anything you want it to...and still be 'natural'.

 

[shunt2011]

If you list any ingredients on your label you must list them all in descending order. I list everything as many folks these days are allergic to just about anything. I do however, just list fragrance and mica or oxides etc....

 

[LilyJo]

Whilst I understand what you are saying @TheGecko you cant make definitive statements like that without some qualification. I would hate newbies to read this thinking that they can label how they want wherever they are in the world, you cant.

If you sell ( or even gift ) in the EU and in other countries, there are strict rules on labelling and soap is soap is soap. It is a cosmetic and labels are produced using a set standard and you are required to include all ingredients including mica, EOs and to state allergens.

I know the rules are somewhat different in the states I just hate to see such definitive statements handed out when the forum covers many other countries.