My procedure for salting out

[sfnelson67]

I followed the steps in this process and was absolutely amazed at the results. I love soaping but oils can be expensive to just toss when something goes wrong. I can't justify junking something I put money and time in on making. To me the accomplishment of using this method and the results are every bit as rewarding as making the soap itself. This is one of those priceless instructionals that I am thankful was posted. Thank you bakmthiscl for sharing your knowledge.

This process I also found was basically the process used in making Savon de Marseille, which I have been fascinated by.

 

[bakmthiscl]

Graceyworks,

Well, judging from my latest batch of soap, your idea is nothing short of wonderful. Okay, this latest batch of grease MIGHT have been slightly cleaner than the usual waste grease I collect from roasts, but it wasn't a night-or-day difference. The grease, as usual, was a medium to dark amber when melted, and contained specs of stuff, which I filter out. Maybe I normally have a dark amber grease, but not all that much different.

Anyway, the resulting soap is several shades lighter than my usual batch -- like pale almond color, not yellow at all -- and I'm very happy with it.

To achieve this miracle (IIRC), I boiled up the grease with water then set the covered pot out in the snow to congeal. Draining off the water from under the solid grease eliminated the really ucky water soluble crud. Normally, I'd have repeated this two or three times to continue to eliminate the non-fat (proteins, I think) and colored materials, but this time I added water and enough (water softener) salt to saturate the water, and boiled that up, with stirring, before I set it out to congeal. (Soap making is a wintertime activity for me!) Well! The result was wonderful -- the grease was very light in color, and the soap came out about the same color

Now it's hard to describe colors without a color reference chart, and those don't work over the Internet because different monitors are likely to display them differently. So I'll attempt to compare the color to common (USA) household colors to give an idea what I am looking at. I find that my 30-year-old "almond" colored kitchen stove is slightly paler than this soap, but also of a different hue -- less yellow. My several "light almond" light switch plates are almost identical in color to the stove. (Note that the soap is darker and more yellow than "ivory" switch plates.) I find a high degree of color consistency in "manila" file folders, and this color almost exactly matches the color of my soap. Note that "manila" envelopes are a good deal browner than my soap, so "manila" is not a sufficient description. By comparison, my previous soaps (from cooking oil, not from that awful stinky grease I reported on previously) are a distinctly browner shade, almost the same as "manila" envelopes.

That's the best I can do over this medium and I hope it conveys the improvement this technique provided. Of course, this is not a scientific test. I "should" have used a water-rendering procedure side-by-side on the same grease I used the brine-rendering procedure and determined the difference, but I didn't.

I also want to emphasize that this batch did not employ salting out of the soap itself. Using brine IS salting out, but this was done on the grease, not on the soap, so the grease itself was unaffected -- only the semi-water-soluble components, which were drawn into the brine by the vastly increased ionic activity. Accordingly, there is NO reason to use distilled water or soft water in this technique -- the calcium and magnesium in hard water probably have no effect on the procedure.

 

[Maggie Moon]

I would think it should also work for cleaning up used oils BEFORE making the soap, to help remove the impurities and cooking odors, to lessen or eliminate the need for the extensive salting-out process.

I’m revisiting a love of cold process soap making after more two decades, and happened across this WONDERFUL website. In my absence, soap making has advanced light years, or at least the number of folks doing it has AND the resources available.

To the point of this thread, I bought some Pomace olive oil a few years ago, intending to start soaping again then. It didn’t happen, and a gallon of this oil has sat, unopened since. This morning, I “cleaned” 64 oz. (vol.) into 64 oz. tap water with 1-1/2 cups Kosher salt and 1-1/2 cups table salt with iodine. The mixture is cooling down now, and obviously separating. There is NO odor.

I’m going to use it this evening as part of a test batch of sap, and will report back.

 

[Relle]

I’m revisiting a love of cold process soap making after more two decades, and happened across this WONDERFUL website. In my absence, soap making has advanced light years, or at least the number of folks doing it has AND the resources available.

To the point of this thread, I bought some Pomace olive oil a few years ago, intending to start soaping again then. It didn’t happen, and a gallon of this oil has sat, unopened since. This morning, I “cleaned” 64 oz. (vol.) into 64 oz. tap water with 1-1/2 cups Kosher salt and 1-1/2 cups table salt with iodine. The mixture is cooling down now, and obviously separating. There is NO odor.

I’m going to use it this evening as part of a test batch of sap, and will report back.

Maggie the person you quoted and replying to hasn't been here for two years. This thread is from 2014, so is 5yrs old. Please don't bring up old threads as most of people are no longer here. If you would like to start a new thread and link to this old one, that would be better. The date of threads are on them.

 

[Maggie Moon]

Maggie the person you quoted and replying to hasn't been here for two years. This thread is from 2014, so is 5yrs old. Please don't bring up old threads as most of people are no longer here. If you would like to start a new thread and link to this old one, that would be better. The date of threads are on them.

I’m SO sorry!! I didn’t realize.. (I’m new to a lot of things, obviously. )

 

[MickeyRat]

Being a relatively new hobbyist soap maker, I have about 30 bars that I scented badly. I've thought about salting them out but, really I don't have much use for what I would get out of it. I have a high efficiency washer so it probably wouldn't work for laundry soap. However, I'm wondering if I added some coffee grounds would it make a good hand soap for the garage? Is there a time when it would be appropriate to add something like that? If so, any advice on how much coffee grounds?

 

[winusuren]

Thank you for the information...

 

[mwalevans]

I'm following up on my (top) posting with a detail I didn't fully realize and didn't report: Use soft water for the salting-out process!!! Some years ago I posted on a failure of salting out, and I've since had one more such failure. The problem, I'm convinced, was that in both cases I had used too much hard water.

Soap is the sodium (or potassium) salt of fatty acids (plus a minority of other stuff, perhaps), and is completely soluble in water. But hard water contains calcium and magnesium salts (and possibly iron and others), the "soaps" of which are insoluble in water. Bummer. Using too much hard water turns your batch of salt into a batch of "bathtub ring"!

To prevent this, use either soft water (from a water softener that uses "water softener salt") or just use distilled water (from a dehumidifier). I do the latter because I don't have a water softener, and I'd throw away the condensate from the dehumidifier anyway.

Using distilled water, I am now able to salt out a batch of soap repeatedly, washing away water-soluble impurities each time, and reducing the odor. This is not a 100% effective procedure. The soap from the nasty oil I have been working with still has an odor and a distinct (though not necessarily unpleasant) yellow color.

In my latest go-around, I've done one final salting out, which left a medium-amber-colored brine (as opposed to dark amber or black), and now I'm doing one final brine "rinse" of the batch, and that will be it. I can still smell the bad odor in this soap (derived directly from the nasty oil it was made from) and I rather doubt it will be suitable for the bath.

Bottom line: Salting out is a very useful technique in some instances, especially for correcting an "oops" in which you used too much lye, but will not take a really foul soap and turn it into a lovely, clean-smelling white soap! Start with "clean" oil and fat to get clean soap. Use salting out as a "tool" along the way.

Now, to respond to some questions above (which I saw today for the first time):

Q: Do you always make soap in this manner or were you just trying to find a procedure for salting out, as you called it?

A: I certainly don't ever plan ahead on using salting out in my soapmaking, but I do make soap from my waste cooking oil, and salting out is a way of removing the dark color from such soap, should it happen that refining the oil before soapmaking didn't do the trick.

Q: So, what is the purpose of salting out the soap? Is it so your can remove impurities from used oil to soap with it?

A: Succinctly, salting out allows you to separate the soap from water-soluble impurities, such as odors or colors. I consider it a means of save an otherwise failed batch. I consider it much more important to refine the oil before soapmaking. (I refine the oil by running it through a fine strainer, then boiling it up with water and letting it cool to 40F or so, possibly multiple times, and discarding the water.)

Q: Would this method work with rancid oils or DOS afflicted soaps? Or am I way off track with the purpose of salting out soap?

A: Please avoid acronyms like "DOS" - "Dreaded orange spots". (It took me a while even to learn what it means, from www.natural-soapmaking.net/DOS.html). Salting out would probably correct the spots, but it would probably work only moderately well for removing the odors of rancidity. However, I simply don't understand how soap can go rancid and SMELL unless it is very significantly overfatted with unsaturated oils. Soap is a salt, and hence is of very low volatility. I would think that only the free fatty acids could give rise to an odor. In any event, this was not MY purpose for salting out. I see it as a means for eliminating excess lye if you muck up the recipe, or excess color if you're working (as I do) with waste oil.

Thanks so much for the informative R&D and your sharing all procedural steps

However would it be worthwhile to extract the glycerine and at what stage?

 

[DeeAnna]

The OP hasn't been on the forum in years, so is not very likely to respond.

Unless you're a large scale manufacturer with the right equipment, you are far better off buying purified glycerin rather than trying to extract and purify the glycerin in the crude liquid you get from salting-out.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

This thread covers 2 procedures:

1) How to clean used, dirty, rancid or old oils before soaping them.
That subject has been discussed many times. Use the SEARCH feature in the upper right corner of this page to learn more.

2) Salting Out Soap - See @DeeAnna's Soapy Stuff

3) An easy way to experience this process that results in "PURE" soap:

- Grate up 2 or 3 bars of soap.
- Fill a stainless steel 3-quart sauce pan 1/2 - 2/3 full with water.
- Pour common table salt into the cup of your hand. Add to the water.
- Once the water is boiling, add the gratings and turn down the heat to MED-HIGH.
- Drop the gratings in. Stir gently. Continue to boil gently -- without boiling over.
- In about 15 minutes, "curds" will start rising to the top.
- Scoop curds out with a slotted spoon onto a paper towel.
- Once all the curds are out, transfer them to a lined strainer (paper or cloth).
- The gunky brown liquid at the bottom of the pan consists of the undesirables and glycerin.
- Once all the liquid has drained out of the curds in the strainer, I use gloved hands to squeeze more liquid out and shape the curds into balls of soap.
- I drop each ball into a clean repurposed panty hose and hang them from a banana holder (very high tech, I know LOL). But you can improvise something similar. It takes days for all the water to drip out.
- I continue to squeeze and shape the balls over the next week or so until they are ready to set out to await full water extraction (curing).

The first time I did this, I was amazed at how nice "pure soap" feels. Lovely.

This is an Old Time technique described in detail in older soapmaking books.

 

[KDP]

Interesting

 

[Zany_in_CO]

However would it be worthwhile to extract the glycerine and at what stage?

Just to be clear, Salting Out extracts the glycerin. It's just the nature of the process.

 

[cmzaha]

Just to be clear, Salting Out extracts the glycerin. It's just the nature of the process.

But it does not extract purified glycerin but gross brown liquid, and soap with no glycerin. I personally hate salted-out soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

But it does not extract purified glycerin but gross brown liquid, and soap with no glycerin. I personally hate salted-out soap.

Yep, that's pretty much it -- icky brown liquid.

There are some so-called tutorials that claim this liquid -- called nigre by large-scale soap makers -- is the glycerin from the soap, but that is incorrect. Nigre is mostly water and salt. There is certainly glycerin in the nigre, but only a small percentage of the whole is actual glycerin.

 

[Soapmakingirl]

Glycerine is a humectant. In soap, or lotions, it moisturizes the skin, helps prevent drying out of the skin, and due to being a humectant actually attracts moisture to the skin. Used completely alone it is quite viscous and sticky, but would have the same moisturizing benefits to skin and hair. Much more pleasant when introduced to the skin by soap or lotion.

Great information. Will this work for Grapeseed oil or just butters and solid coconut oil?

 

[DeeAnna]

Great information. Will this work for Grapeseed oil or just butters and solid coconut oil?

This is a very old thread and Lin hasn't been on SMF for years. The topic here is how to do the process of "salting out" soap, so we aren't talking about fats in this thread.

Not sure how the question you're asking is related to the original topic here. I'd suggest starting a new thread to ask your question.