My Palm Free Vegan Soap Adventures

[Chris_S]

We have been making a palm free, vegan soap for a few years now and tbh I am with @Carolyne Thrasher in avoiding nut based oils in my soaps. We stopped using sweet almond in almost all our products following feedback from customers about allergies so its worth bearing in mind if you are looking at the 'ethical' angle for future sales.

Just to throw a spanner into your deliberations if you are looking at a 'green' approach or even a marketing angle, you may need to think about EOs rather than FO.

I hadnt even considered the sweet almond oil as a common allergy and thats a very good point and it made me realise that my niece has allergies and might not be ok with soaps with that in ill have to check because i dont want to be the reason she gets poorly bless her shes a tough little cookie jumping on the bed at 3am after being sick twice suppose thats what happens when they turn 2 lmao. Not sure why it took this long to realise that but least i have now.

As far as fo goes i see entirely where you are coming from but its not really a green angle i am aiming this at, it was just because of the comment made by a friend then curiosity on my part that made me think of trying it for people who wanted vegan soaps to try for feedback. Theres soooo much to consider when making claims like green and ethical isnt there like how do you package something green to keep everyone happy its a near enough impossible task because someone will say no thats not to my liking or standards however hard you try.
Im very much in try this try that kinda phase so what i do now is more to do with the soap itself and ingriedients than the fo so i feel the sweet almond oil is definatly very relivant and more likely to effect me in future potential selling. If i was to go this way when i do hopefully get to selling stage then i will absolutly consider this i have tried eo but honestly not had outstanding results although everyone liked the spearmint on and peppermint and eucalyptus eo soap i did so i suppose they would be options to consider if i were to go that route. I am always very clear to people and honest that the fragrance isnt really from say strawberries and its a made fragragnce and its not natural. Thank you for your sensible and honest input and @Carolyne Thrasher ok yeah beekeeping dont even go there not yet at least but hopefully when the time is right then you maybe able to reconsider and because you will get great joy out of such a hobby until they sting you then you will hate me for encouraging you lol you will spend more time thinking about bees and looking at videos ect than you can afford too i dont want to be resposible for more added stress. A good friend bought me a tshirt for christmas because i was having a really bad week it say 'warning may spontaneously talk about bees' because she jokingly said she was fed up and wanted me to come with a warning label she later acknowledged i dont even mention them that often and she found the attacking of me very funny especially when my eye swelled up i say friend lol

@Dean is it not just that nut allergy suffers would have allergies to that too?

 

[aksamitka]

Putting that aside please. Back on topic I'v cut and put my soaps to cure sitting nicely and smelling amazing.

They turned out well. Decent soap bars!

Honestly it would probably, ironically, be made with animal fat locally sourced plus whatever tree nut could be locally sourced plus canola, chia, soy, castor and sunflower if they can be grown in the region (all of those can in the Pacific Northwest USA where I live).

I came to the same conclusion about environment and soap recepies... Even if you can labeled one as a palm free and vegan, it might be not equal with environmental frendly. You should think about local indredients, cultivation and oil processing. Every time when i think of it, animal fat pokes its head out as a really sustainable sorce.

More to the point. Most of my recepies are vegan, simply because I don't like smell of lard and tallow.
I do an experiment with diffrent ingredients so every time I am making completely new soap recipe.
Because of that I have a lot of diffrent vegan recepies. I find out that best plant based soaps need to have some coconut oil and some procentage of plant butters but I also made bars from pure rapessed oil and they came out quite usable.
Maybe try to keep your coconut/babassu oil levels and consider some other ingredients, like rapessed, flax, sunflower, hemp seed, grape seeds, watermelon seeds, camelina etc? Find out what you can find in your region (in resonable price) and try to take a challenge and formulate (mostly) english vegan soap

 

[Dean]

They turned out well. Decent soap bars!


I came to the same conclusion about environment and soap recepies... Even if you can labeled one as a palm free and vegan, it might be not equal with environmental frendly. You should think about local indredients, cultivation and oil processing. Every time when i think of it, animal fat pokes its head out as a really sustainable sorce.

More to the point. Most of my recepies are vegan, simply because I don't like smell of lard and tallow.
I do an experiment with diffrent ingredients so every time I am making completely new soap recipe.
Because of that I have a lot of diffrent vegan recepies. I find out that best plant based soaps need to have some coconut oil and some procentage of plant butters but I also made bars from pure rapessed oil and they came out quite usable.
Maybe try to keep your coconut/babassu oil levels and consider some other ingredients, like rapessed, flax, sunflower, hemp seed, grape seeds, watermelon seeds, camelina etc? Find out what you can find in your region (in resonable price) and try to take a challenge and formulate (mostly) english vegan soap

Are u using butters to harden or condition?

 

[aksamitka]

Definitely as a condition factor. Soap can be quite hard even with higer procentage of coconut oil, but it will be better with some cacoa or shea butter

 

[Carolyne Thrasher]

Thx for sharing. I use AO as my HO oil. I’m curious to know who else knows a significant number of people topically allergic to almonds.

There is a difference and I’m sure it’s a smaller amount than can’t consume but one of my very best friends is very sensitive topically and she prefers handmade soap and I want her to be able to use my soap. I find it’s kind of a niche too. I’m amazed at how many people come out of the woodwork when I mention it. Makes people feel included.

 

[Dawni]

Oye am I allowed to comment now? Haha

Here where I am, anything vegan is expensive or hard to find. Probably because it's not a big thing here yet; hard to be in a third world country I think. I discovered recently, when SO was here for 3mos that a lot of people don't even know the term vegan.

Almond milk is about 30% more expensive than cow's milk. Tofu is relatively cheap but good quality is hard to find. All the nuts, except peanuts, aren't very cheap and for example, a lot of people have never seen a pistachio. Going out to eat is a pain in the backside, right where my wallet usually is.

That being said, one reason I just had to look for lard was cost. I really believe animal fat is more sustainable but given the difficulty in finding it I've always suspected people mostly eat their meat with it so we're pretty sustainable on that point lol.

I think I mentioned somewhere else that before I found lard I had to rely on the butters (I had not discovered waxes yet) and there's a big price difference. Lard cost me 90 pesos a kg and I have found a new supplier selling cocoa butter for 600 a kg, and shea for 950. Both unrefined. Huge difference.

If I were to eventually sell I won't be able to cater to the bigger percentage of the population who probably can't afford a vegan handmade soap. The ones I have tried cost from about 150-350 pesos a bar. I haven't sat down to try n see what my vegan soaps might cost.

Commercial "soaps" will be the preference at less than 50 for the same size. I had always thought that if I were to sell I'd like to keep costs as low as possible because I've always wanted to be able to "share" handmade soap with the "regular people" so I'll probably have to make a few vegan soaps if anyone asked, since I'm making them for SO also. I think that's how most do it anyway.

Just my thoughts on vegan soaps lol

Oh and @Dean, I for one have not encountered any one person with nut allergies here. I'm sure there are but could be rare given I'm almost 35 and have "been around" here and I've not met nor heard of anyone lol. Most of the allergies are towards seafood, shrimp and prawns being the most common.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Well i wont appologise for your lack of understanding or lack of reading of the actual comments i made because i didnt even say what you implied anyway and if you had bothered to read it correctly you would of seen this. So yeah be rude all you want because i know im the one thats been correct from the start. Iv nothing more to say on the matter and will be requesting the entire thread gets deleted if this is brought up again.

Putting that aside please. Back on topic I'v cut and put my soaps to cure sitting nicely and smelling amazing.

They look great Chris!

 

[MarnieSoapien]

I'm not in the UK, but I am making test batches of palm free soaps using rapeseed wax. I'd be interested in a swap if that's still on the table (I haven't had time to fully read all of the comments yet, but will as soon as my 4 year old is adequately distracted).

 

[Deborah Long]

@Dean - My niece is very allergic to sweet almond oil. I use sunflower instead, since that doesn't bother her...

 

[Chris_S]

I'm not in the UK, but I am making test batches of palm free soaps using rapeseed wax. I'd be interested in a swap if that's still on the table (I haven't had time to fully read all of the comments yet, but will as soon as my 4 year old is adequately distracted).

using rapeseed wax had crossed my mind tbh as an alternative. if you can find out how much it would cost id happily do a swap to compare with you especially as you will be using a wax i was thinking about trying. Is it just regular rapeseed wax you use there isnt a specific cosmetic type is there? Im struggling to find anything about cosmetic soy wax to buy in the uk. If anyone knows a site that sells such a thing without mad postage costs to bump up the prices please do enlighten me thanks

 

[LilyJo]

I've made mine with regular rapeseed and also tried it with regular sox wax - just make sure they havent been blended with another wax to make it cheaper.

These guys are good https://www.thesoapery.co.uk/ or you could try Livemoor who do free delivery https://www.livemoor.co.uk/pages/search-results-page?q=Wax

 

[aksamitka]

@Chris_S Maybe try to find sites with equipment for candle making?
There is someting like suppliesforcandles.co.uk and they have rapeseed wax.
I can't say anything about them and their products because I did't order anything from them.

Now I can see @LilyJo answer and hers suggestions are far better than mine

 

[KiwiMoose]

You need GW415 which has no additives Chris. I've looked on a few of your UK websites but can't find it, but why don't you ask these guys off they can get it in for you?:https://www.4candles.co.uk/candle-making-wax/natural-ecosoya-rapeseed-beeswax.html
Love the name BTW - it's from that old Two Ronnies skit - where he goes into the shop asks for four candles. he actually wants fork handles :-D

 

[Chris_S]

@Chris_S Maybe try to find sites with equipment for candle making?
There is someting like suppliesforcandles.co.uk and they have rapeseed wax.
I can't say anything about them and their products because I did't order anything from them.

Now I can see @LilyJo answer and hers suggestions are far better than mine

that is the site i use for fo so i know them well just about to put an order in. And @LilyJo iv got about 30kg of soy candle wax from livemoor but i read they blend it to make it burn better hence why i was asking but i have no idea what its blended with probably best giving them a ring or email and ask they should have some kind of safety data sheet right?

Kiwimoose Thats the one i was thinking of couldnt remember the name there could be others that dont have addatives though or it might go under different name here?

 

[LilyJo]

You need GW415 which has no additives Chris. I've looked on a few of your UK websites but can't find it, but why don't you ask these guys off they can get it in for you?:https://www.4candles.co.uk/candle-making-wax/natural-ecosoya-rapeseed-beeswax.html
Love the name BTW - it's from that old Two Ronnies skit - where he goes into the shop asks for four candles. he actually wants fork handles :-D

Dont recall ever having seen GW415 in the UK, the main candle suppliers all seem to stock the same stuff but you could try Soap Kitchen. I love Soap Kitchen for their range but I find them a bit more expensive than other suppliers and their shipping adds another chunk to the costs!

 

[MarnieSoapien]

using rapeseed wax had crossed my mind tbh as an alternative. if you can find out how much it would cost id happily do a swap to compare with you especially as you will be using a wax i was thinking about trying. Is it just regular rapeseed wax you use there isnt a specific cosmetic type is there? Im struggling to find anything about cosmetic soy wax to buy in the uk. If anyone knows a site that sells such a thing without mad postage costs to bump up the prices please do enlighten me thanks

I found a distributor out of the Netherlands that has cosmetic grade, non-GMO rapeseed wax. Here's the link https://www.soapqueen.eu/a-44400212/oils-butters-waxes/rapeseed-wax-eco-cosmetic-100-natural-obw053/
I made 2 fragrance and colorant free batches last week, so any swaps will have to wait for a few more weeks. I'm still testing recipes to find "the one" and have one more to try.

 

[Chris_S]

Dont recall ever having seen GW415 in the UK, the main candle suppliers all seem to stock the same stuff but you could try Soap Kitchen. I love Soap Kitchen for their range but I find them a bit more expensive than other suppliers and their shipping adds another chunk to the costs!

Yeah i noticed they are more expensive than the ones i use and dont like paying for postage ontop of already higher prices. I get my micas and oils and butters from the soapery oh and eo. fo i get from supplies for candles and livemoor i buy my soy and was buying beeswax from. Although i think it was you i saw mentioning lye from the soap kitchen and even with postage it worked out 15 quid cheaper than place i then cancelled my order with so if that was you then thank you.

Thats fine my palm free soaps are barely a few days old as far as the dutch supplier they have a minimum order cost otherwise they have a fee so i dread to think what postage would cost to England. We have lots of rapeseed oil here there must be a supplier of the oil somewhere in the uk theres field after field near the club training apairy i help at during the summer

 

[Rune]

Many items are cosmetic grade, even if they are marked for another purpose. Candle wax can be cosmetic grade, even if they don't specificly say so (I have such a wax where the supplier did not mention cosmetics, only candles). Find the MSDS and/or other documents, and you can most likely find out. Maybe even the cheapest rapeseed wax is cosmetic grade or approved for food. That can easily happen.

 

[Chris_S]

Many items are cosmetic grade, even if they are marked for another purpose. Candle wax can be cosmetic grade, even if they don't specificly say so (I have such a wax where the supplier did not mention cosmetics, only candles). Find the MSDS and/or other documents, and you can most likely find out. Maybe even the cheapest rapeseed wax is cosmetic grade or approved for food. That can easily happen.

It had never even occured to me that checking the documents for the wax would tell me what its suitable for. Im off to do that now thanks so much for the idea hope one my waxes is suitable might motivate me to make some soap after nearly a month of silence

 

[Dawni]

It had never even occured to me that checking the documents for the wax would tell me what its suitable for. Im off to do that now thanks so much for the idea hope one my waxes is suitable might motivate me to make some soap after nearly a month of silence

We've been discussing in the other thread about soy wax @Chris_S. Check if yours is pure 100% hydrogenated soy, or the other one that's about 98% soy and about 2% soy based additive. Steve85569 has tried both and got suds but is waiting to cure for further testing. I'm gonna try the one with the additive myself as I can't find the pure one.