My aloe juice has citric acid in it oops

[Monique Serio Enete]

There’s a reason I don’t try to soap on weekends when husband’s home and we are in and out. Sigh. I thought I would be “smart” and make a 50/50 master batch lye solution using aloe Vera juice to use tonight. As I was putting the aloe juice in the fridge I saw the ingredients were aloe juice AND citric acid. So I’m wondering if I’ve totally screwed up the lye solution. With no idea how much citric acid is in there I can’t add extra lye to compensate for it, not that I’m sure I would do that math correctly. Should I scrap it or try to use it? Any and all suggestions appreciated

 

[cmzaha]

I would not worry about the small amount of citric acid that is in the aloe. The aloe juice I use has Citric Acid and Sodium Benzoate at 1%

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

Thank you for the quick reply! I’m going to try to use lard tonight. Fingers crossed. The one and only time I did was a complete smelly nasty but pretty soap. After much reading here I’ve combined the oakmoss absolute with jojoba oil to try that to help the odor. I’m still waiting on a delivery of jojoba ( only had 7 oz and mixed in 1 oz oakmoss). Husband came in as I was diluting it and said he would rather smell like a pig than that! wish me luck!

 

[Richard Perrine]

I would not worry about the small amount of citric acid that is in the aloe. The aloe juice I use has Citric Acid and Sodium Benzoate at 1%

Agreed. The amount of citric acid is very small. It will be fine.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm pretty sure oakmoss is skin safe only at fairly low levels. Have you checked that the % of oakmoss in your finished soap is within recommended limits?

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

I'm pretty sure oakmoss is skin safe only at fairly low levels. Have you checked that the % of oakmoss in your finished soap is within recommended limits?

I haven't used it yet. I’ve read mixed things on oakmoss absolute and the smell is strange. Think the amount suggested here was .7% ppo or 1/4 tsp ppo AFTER dilution. I still have to wait to use it because the dilution amount suggested was 1 oz to 9 oz of jojoba, and I only have 7 oz of oil. Does this amount sound safe to you? If not please let me know or direct me to a reliable source you use for information. I’ve not found much especially concerning using it for soap. Thank you!

 

[DeeAnna]

According to Essential Oil Safety by Tisserand and Young, oakmoss absolute should be limited to no more than 0.1% in lotions and creams (IRFA categories 4 and 5). Soap is in a different IRFA category (9 if memory serves me right), but my experience is that the IFRA recommendations for lotions are often about the same as for soap. Per Tisserand, oakmoss is a high risk skin sensitizer.

To translate that 0.1%, you would use 1 ounce of oakmoss absolute in 1000 ounces of soap. (For those who think in grams, substitute the word gram where you see ounce.)

A mixture of 1 oz oakmoss in 9 oz jojoba is a 10% mixture by weight. If you only have 7 oz jojoba, then you'd mix 0.78 oz oakmoss with the 7 oz of jojoba to get the same 10% mixture.

I have heard of this oakmoss idea, but if your soap smells so bad that people wrinkle their nose, I question whether oakmoss is a true solution to that problem. If the lard is rancid or contaminated somehow, then, yes, there will probably be a bad odor in the soap, but the solution for that kind of problem is to not use bad-smelling fats to make soap, whether it's lard or any other fat. If lard smells clean and mild, the resulting soap should be likewise.

I make lard soap, often with 60-80% lard in the recipe. I've used lard I've rendered myself and I've used several commercial brands (usually Armour). I once did a small batch with lard rendered from collected bacon fat drippings just to say I've done it. I've never had the soap smell nasty.

"...Does this amount sound safe to you?..."

I don't know. You haven't said anything about how you intend to use it. I mean, I know you want to use it in lard-based soap, but that's about all I know. Are you planning to use all of this of jojoba/oakmoss mixture in your soap? How big of a batch?

 

[NsMar42111]

Your soap should NOT smell nasty. Something's wrong that no scent is going to cover. Was it pine tar? Was it a milk soap? What was it?

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

According to Essential Oil Safety by Tisserand and Young, oakmoss absolute should be limited to no more than 0.1% in lotions and creams (IRFA categories 4 and 5). Soap is in a different IRFA category (9 if memory serves me right), but my experience is that the IFRA recommendations for lotions are often about the same as for soap. Per Tisserand, oakmoss is a high risk skin sensitizer.

To translate that 0.1%, you would use 1 ounce of oakmoss absolute in 1000 ounces of soap. (For those who think in grams, substitute the word gram where you see ounce.)

A mixture of 1 oz oakmoss in 9 oz jojoba is a 10% mixture by weight. If you only have 7 oz jojoba, then you'd mix 0.78 oz oakmoss with the 7 oz of jojoba to get the same 10% mixture.

I have heard of this oakmoss idea, but if your soap smells so bad that people wrinkle their nose, I question whether oakmoss is a true solution to that problem. If the lard is rancid or contaminated somehow, then, yes, there will probably be a bad odor in the soap, but the solution for that kind of problem is to not use bad-smelling fats to make soap, whether it's lard or any other fat. If lard smells clean and mild, the resulting soap should be likewise.

I make lard soap, often with 60-80% lard in the recipe. I've used lard I've rendered myself and I've used several commercial brands (usually Armour). I once did a small batch with lard rendered from collected bacon fat drippings just to say I've done it. I've never had the soap smell nasty.

"...Does this amount sound safe to you?..."

I don't know. You haven't said anything about how you intend to use it. I mean, I know you want to use it in lard-based soap, but that's about all I know. Are you planning to use all of this of jojoba/oakmoss mixture in your soap? How big of a batch?

I’ve mentioned before of making lard soap that smelled fine the first month, but as months went on it just smelled stranger. The lard didn’t really smell when I used it, it was not rancid. Maybe I overheated it. After many months it smelled like straight up pork fat when used, not sweet pea fo.

It’s been mentioned on forum that some people just can’t stand the smell but I wasn’t the only one who thought it smelled like pork fat. I only made that one loaf with lard. Been using palm and tallow shortening, since then. Lard is Inexpensive and readily available so I would love to use it while I practice my soaping. I read over and over how great the soaps are with lard and I want to try it.

I only make small batches 24-50 oz. i dont sell nor am I looking to start a business. But I would like to successfully make a longer lasting mild bar for us at home. Any lard batches I make will be in the 2 lbs range for now. I was going to use the 1/4 tsp diluted oakmoss per pound of lard. (not sure yet which lard percentage or other oils will be in the fat mix)

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

Your soap should NOT smell nasty. Something's wrong that no scent is going to cover. Was it pine tar? Was it a milk soap? What was it?

I realize that it shouldn’t smell bad but it smelled like pig and not just to my nose.

50% olive oil
25% coconut oil
25% lard
sweet pea fo and some micas.

Soaped around 100

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Any lard batches I make will be in the 2 lbs range for now. I was going to use the 1/4 tsp diluted oakmoss per pound of lard. (not sure yet which lard percentage or other oils will be in the fat mix)

Actually, I use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon Oakmoss 10% PPO -- Per Pound Oils, not necessarily just the lard. Oakmoss not only neutralizes the odor of lard/tallow but it also "anchors" any other scent you want to use to make it last longer.

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

Actually, I use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon Oakmoss 10% PPO -- Per Pound Oils, not necessarily just the lard. Oakmoss not only neutralizes the odor of lard/tallow but it also "anchors" any other scent you want to use to make it last longer.

Do you use it to anchor EO only or FO also?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Do you use it to anchor EO only or FO also?

Mostly EOs because that's my fragrance preference. I have mixed EOs and FOs at times but can't remember a time when I specifically used Oakmoss. Shouldn't be a problem though. It's all about putting your mad scientist hat on and trying things. I'd recommend it if your FO needs a little depth or to help "stick" a scent.

 

[NsMar42111]

That low of lard and it smells piggy? If your original lard isn't highly scented, then you might've overheated your oils. That will make the lard smellier. Try soaping at a lower temperature before wasting a ton of money on FOs?

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

That low of lard and it smells piggy? If your original lard isn't highly scented, then you might've overheated your oils. That will make the lard smellier. Try soaping at a lower temperature before wasting a ton of money on FOs?

Hahaha yes ma’am that was a potent pig. I think it’s me and oils. I always smell the oil. Even in The good batches. Like the coffee soap. That smells awful with lye. Everyone loves the soap but I still smell that nasty coffee/ lye smell.

The biggest waste of FOs is not understanding how to work with the accelerating ones well. I try to remember all the troubleshooting tips but my brain doesn’t retain all I need to know and learn. Cooler, warmer, more water, less, etc. I hit panic mode when it starts to lock up on me in the bowl.

I think it’ll help if I find a good solid base recipe I like and figure it out from there. Can’t say I’ve found one I like to be the ONE. Kids tell me their favorite but they are judging by scent as opposed to function. Mine don’t last long at all. I’ll keep reading and trying though.

 

[DeeAnna]

To get a longer lasting bar, I would swap the % olive and the % lard (or palm instead of lard) in the recipe you gave in Post 10. That is a simple change that will help a lot.

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

To get a longer lasting bar, I would swap the % olive and the % lard (or palm instead of lard) in the recipe you gave in Post 10. That is a simple change that will help a lot.

DeeAnna I would love input on a couple different recipes.( I’m not at home atm) The bars were very easy to pour and hardened fast. Made them in June and they only seem to last a week in the shower. (Granted the bars are small). Can I send them to you or should I just post here? I’ve drifted way off original topic. I have questions about edta and bht and treating oils also. Should each of those things be new threads of posts?

 

[DeeAnna]

I encourage people to post in the forums. I think PM's work well for discussing truly obscure topics, or if a person is shy, or if the subject is of a personal or delicate nature.

Outside of those situations, I think public discussions are usually more helpful, since the person will get a variety of opinions and answers. They also help other people who might have the same question, but haven't asked it. And public discussions also spread the responsibility for answering amongst the group at large -- many hands make light work.

If the questions you have about EDTA and BHT and their use in fats and/or soap are even sort of related, ask them in one new thread. If the question about EDTA is really super different than the question about BHT, split 'em up.

 

[Monique Serio Enete]

I encourage people to post in the forums. I think PM's work well for discussing truly obscure topics, or if a person is shy, or if the subject is of a personal or delicate nature.

Outside of those situations, I think public discussions are usually more helpful, since the person will get a variety of opinions and answers. They also help other people who might have the same question, but haven't asked it. And public discussions also spread the responsibility for answering amongst the group at large -- many hands make light work.

If the questions you have about EDTA and BHT and their use in fats and/or soap are even sort of related, ask them in one new thread. If the question about EDTA is really super different than the question about BHT, split 'em up.

. I have searched the forums and read many threads but not finding all my questions and answers.

I enjoy your posts and trials. I’ll admit a lot of is is too technical for me to grasp but I always learn something.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I hit panic mode when it starts to lock up on me in the bowl.

The first rule of soap making is PATIENCE.
The second rule of soap making is DON'T PANIC. Take a deep breath and dig into the well of what you know and trust yourself.

TIP: As for the batch "locking up" aka "seizing" aka becoming "soap on a stick", the best thing to do is walk away for a full 5 minutes. Set a timer if you have to. When you come back, the soap will be in gel phase and easy to stir.

HTH (Hope this Helps)