gekko62
Well-Known Member
If the wood was sealed(ie paint or varnish.Or silicone I spose) then perhaps the oiling would work? Otherwise whatever you apply will just soak into the wood yeah? Maybe sealing,then dimethicone. Hey,just my 2c! :wink:
Mold Release Experiment
- Thread starter donniej
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angbaby4974
Well-Known Member
I applied adhesive vinyl to mine. I have a sign shop, so I just used some scraps from a job I did. They release great about 98% of the time, with only an occasional sticking issue. When I spray them with food grade silicone spray, they come out like nobody's business!
There's a couple places you can order online
www.signwarehouse.com & you can go to www. fellers.com, but you have to call & set up an account with fellers (no need to be in the sign business to set up an account at either place). Unless you're doing a big project (like donnie) it would probably be cheaper to go to a local sign shop & ask for remnants than to buy a 10 yard roll of the stuff. However, fellers will sell some vinyl by the yard.
Hope that helps ya out some in your experiments Donnie, I enjoy reading about them.
There's a couple places you can order online
www.signwarehouse.com & you can go to www. fellers.com, but you have to call & set up an account with fellers (no need to be in the sign business to set up an account at either place). Unless you're doing a big project (like donnie) it would probably be cheaper to go to a local sign shop & ask for remnants than to buy a 10 yard roll of the stuff. However, fellers will sell some vinyl by the yard.
Hope that helps ya out some in your experiments Donnie, I enjoy reading about them.
donniej
Well-Known Member
Today I cleaned the stuck-on bits off the molds. Without a doubt, the worst one was the beeswax. Not only was it *really* stuck to the wood, I was surprised to see that the beeswax, which was a pretty thick uniform layer, was almost entirely gone... like magic.
Of the Jojoba or mineral oil, I'm not sure if one was better.
I poured a new batch into my newly modified mold. The sides are now held together with clamps. Tomorrow I plan to remove the clamps, peel off the sides and then remove the loaf from the bottom by slicing it off with a thin wire. I'll post my results tomorrow night.
Of the Jojoba or mineral oil, I'm not sure if one was better.
I poured a new batch into my newly modified mold. The sides are now held together with clamps. Tomorrow I plan to remove the clamps, peel off the sides and then remove the loaf from the bottom by slicing it off with a thin wire. I'll post my results tomorrow night.
ChrissyB
Well-Known Member
Carebear, it does say on it that it's food grade.
The hardware store that I got it (Bunnings, for all the Aussies) is sort of a hodge podge of everything home/garden/laundry related.
The hardware store that I got it (Bunnings, for all the Aussies) is sort of a hodge podge of everything home/garden/laundry related.
G
Guest
donniej
Well-Known Member
The new mold concept of top, bottom, and 2 piece sides worked well. I removed the top, removed the clamps and the sides peeled off pretty clean (with no release agent). I then tried to "floss" the soap off the bottom piece with some steel wire but it took too much force. Next I tried a long, thin knife and worked well. The blade didn't "cut" the soap off the bottom, it actually gently pried it off. You could see it lifting the loaf off the base about 1/4" ahead of the blade.
I poured 3 more batches today and will see how they come out tomorrow, using the same technique. Wish me luck!
I poured 3 more batches today and will see how they come out tomorrow, using the same technique. Wish me luck!
gekko62
Well-Known Member
donniej said:
So donnie,why dyu think the bottom is harder to release than the sides?The surface area's similar. Perhaps it shrinks slightly from the sides,dunno,but I find soap always adheres more to the base.PITA..:?
Mould-lining is my least fave part of soapmaking.But for me it's a choice between fiddling around at the start,or disfigured product & a lot of stuffing around at the end. :x
Saltysteele
Well-Known Member
i've seen people talk about lining with vinyl, plexi, etc. wouldn't it be easier to just make the molds out of plexi/acrylic?
Vinca Leaf
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Kitn said:
OMG, how did you do this? With 2-part silicone?
I just did the Kaseen Cook liners, and while not *too* difficult, never in my LIFE did I think to just paint it directly on my molds!!!!
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
I have tried to paint RTV (Room Temperature Volcanising) silicone onto wood (the silicone that soap liners are made out of) but this does not work very well because 1. RTV is not thick enough to make a consistently thick layer 2. It is selfreleasing from EVERYTHING, so it will peal off the wood easily.
The silicone from the hardware store that comes in tubes is a silicone 'adhesive' (VERY different from RTV silicone) that can stick to bathroom and other surfaces like wood moulds, but I would use a lot of caution with 'silicone' from the hardware store because there are a lot of "nasties" added to the tube silicone to make it adhesive - some even say to avoid contact with your skin, so you never know what might be leaching out of the adhesive type silicone into the soap. It's just a possibility, because hardware store silicone wasn't meant to be used to line moulds that will contain skin care products, so you never know what they would add that wouldn't be compatible.
I also wanted to suggest that you use shellac for your wooden moulds. Shellac is a natural resin (it's even used to coat skittles!) that is very safe and easy to work with, and a shiny plastic like surface can be build up with some patience and lots of layering. Even with just a few coats and some fine sand paper you can get a very smooth sealed surface.
Soap sticks to wood because wood is porous and rough, so the wood needs to be smooth and sealed to assist with non-sticking. (although wood is not flexible so there may need to be some oil or food silicone spray to between the soap and smoothed wood to lubricate and assist it's removal).
To seal and smooth your wood with shellc:
1. You'll need: Shellac flakes (these are the elytra for lac beetles!), methylated spirits (or ethanol), sponge wrapped in lint free cloth about the size of a small golf/base ball, and two small leak free containers.
2. Mix the shellac to the recommended consistency as on the back of your package, I usually make my mix a bit thinner than the back says. When dissolved in a few hours give it a good stir,
3. Sand your wood with a light grit paper (about 120-250 grit) to smooth it down.
4. Dip sponge in the shellac and run over wood for first coat. Let dry for 10 minutes or until dry to the touch.
5. Sand with a lighter grit paper (250-500), apply another layer.
6. Sand with a VERY light grit (800+) sand paper for a very smooth surface and shellac again.
7. Repeat sanding and shellacking until you're happy the the thickness of the shellac on the wood then polish with a butter (I use some old body butter made of cocobutter, lavender, mac wax, and grapeseed oil).
Store your sponge in the other container to keep it from drying up.
That should give you a nice smooth surface that is natural and non-toxic and surprisingly very quick and non-messy to do! At the very least, sanding your wood with 800+ grit sand paper (you may have to look in automotive stores for this high grit paper used in auto detailing) it will get very smooth and with some oil will likely work better simply because the soap can't get caught in the rough surface of un-sanded wood. Very fine paper is a must for getting the wood super smooth
The silicone from the hardware store that comes in tubes is a silicone 'adhesive' (VERY different from RTV silicone) that can stick to bathroom and other surfaces like wood moulds, but I would use a lot of caution with 'silicone' from the hardware store because there are a lot of "nasties" added to the tube silicone to make it adhesive - some even say to avoid contact with your skin, so you never know what might be leaching out of the adhesive type silicone into the soap. It's just a possibility, because hardware store silicone wasn't meant to be used to line moulds that will contain skin care products, so you never know what they would add that wouldn't be compatible.
I also wanted to suggest that you use shellac for your wooden moulds. Shellac is a natural resin (it's even used to coat skittles!) that is very safe and easy to work with, and a shiny plastic like surface can be build up with some patience and lots of layering. Even with just a few coats and some fine sand paper you can get a very smooth sealed surface.
Soap sticks to wood because wood is porous and rough, so the wood needs to be smooth and sealed to assist with non-sticking. (although wood is not flexible so there may need to be some oil or food silicone spray to between the soap and smoothed wood to lubricate and assist it's removal).
To seal and smooth your wood with shellc:
1. You'll need: Shellac flakes (these are the elytra for lac beetles!), methylated spirits (or ethanol), sponge wrapped in lint free cloth about the size of a small golf/base ball, and two small leak free containers.
2. Mix the shellac to the recommended consistency as on the back of your package, I usually make my mix a bit thinner than the back says. When dissolved in a few hours give it a good stir,
3. Sand your wood with a light grit paper (about 120-250 grit) to smooth it down.
4. Dip sponge in the shellac and run over wood for first coat. Let dry for 10 minutes or until dry to the touch.
5. Sand with a lighter grit paper (250-500), apply another layer.
6. Sand with a VERY light grit (800+) sand paper for a very smooth surface and shellac again.
7. Repeat sanding and shellacking until you're happy the the thickness of the shellac on the wood then polish with a butter (I use some old body butter made of cocobutter, lavender, mac wax, and grapeseed oil).
Store your sponge in the other container to keep it from drying up.
That should give you a nice smooth surface that is natural and non-toxic and surprisingly very quick and non-messy to do! At the very least, sanding your wood with 800+ grit sand paper (you may have to look in automotive stores for this high grit paper used in auto detailing) it will get very smooth and with some oil will likely work better simply because the soap can't get caught in the rough surface of un-sanded wood. Very fine paper is a must for getting the wood super smooth
madpiano
Well-Known Member
wow, Shellac - if any is left over, you could even make your own records with it.... I didn't know one could still buy it Where do you find it ????
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
I live in Australia and get it at Bunnings, which is a major hardware store chain. I imagine at the hardware store, or perhaps a paint specialist? It might come pre-mixed in some areas maybe?
I got about 250g for $15 which makes 1-4 liters of shellac depending on your dilution.
I got about 250g for $15 which makes 1-4 liters of shellac depending on your dilution.
donniej
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info on shellac. I didn't realize it was so begign... I still have a couple molds that I haven't used, I'll have to give it a try on one of them. I'll post back my results after I have a chance to try it.
needtosoap
Well-Known Member
I'm very interested in shellacing molds but I have one question: Do you think the lye will react to or eat through it?
The only other idea I think I'm going to try is sticking contact paper to my molds so it's semi permanent and then spraying the inside surfaces with silicone. Does anyone have any thoughts on why this wouldn't be a good idea?
This is a great thread donnie, thanks for starting it!
The only other idea I think I'm going to try is sticking contact paper to my molds so it's semi permanent and then spraying the inside surfaces with silicone. Does anyone have any thoughts on why this wouldn't be a good idea?
This is a great thread donnie, thanks for starting it!
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
Not sure what lye would do to Shellac (I've never used it with CP on leak-proof moulds without linings, but works fine with HP though), might be worth doing a test with some lye first. Would you like me to test it for you before you go out and buy/try shellac? I have some shellacked scraps I could test.
Just curious, but are your wood moulds leak-proof? Does that mean that they can't be taken apart to get the soap out? It might be hard to get the soap out anyway if the mould can't be taken apart, even in silicone moulds the mould usually has to be flexed a bit to be able to "pop" the soap out, the soap would need to be super lubricated to slide out. Maybe there is some way of creating a gasket seal in the joins with some sort of material (maybe vinyl?) that will allow the the parts of the mould to be separated as well as leak proof.
I think at the very least if shellac doesn't work, if you sanded your wood VERY well and finished with a very fine grit paper (800-2000 grit) the wood would be very smooth and perhaps oiling/waxing would work a lot better. Maybe combining wax with oil into a butter would make for an easier to apply lubricant on the wood?
Good luck with your experiments! Let me know if you want me to test some shellac+lye for you!
Just curious, but are your wood moulds leak-proof? Does that mean that they can't be taken apart to get the soap out? It might be hard to get the soap out anyway if the mould can't be taken apart, even in silicone moulds the mould usually has to be flexed a bit to be able to "pop" the soap out, the soap would need to be super lubricated to slide out. Maybe there is some way of creating a gasket seal in the joins with some sort of material (maybe vinyl?) that will allow the the parts of the mould to be separated as well as leak proof.
I think at the very least if shellac doesn't work, if you sanded your wood VERY well and finished with a very fine grit paper (800-2000 grit) the wood would be very smooth and perhaps oiling/waxing would work a lot better. Maybe combining wax with oil into a butter would make for an easier to apply lubricant on the wood?
Good luck with your experiments! Let me know if you want me to test some shellac+lye for you!
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
Ok, I tested some shellac flakes in a moderate lye solution, and it took a while but the flakes eventually dissolved....
So for CP shellac may not be a good solution. But, I have been using shellacked moulds for HP without lining with no issues. So I guess it really depends on what kind of soap you make.
Also, I was thinking that your soap may be a bit less sticky if you used a minimum amount of water (perhaps 25% water as a % of oils), that way the soap would hopefully be a bit harder and drier and come off your wood surface easier then softer/watery stuff that takes longer to harder and to saponify.
Just some ideas! Sorry the Shellac idea won't work with CP, but if you do HP might be worth a try.
Good night!
So for CP shellac may not be a good solution. But, I have been using shellacked moulds for HP without lining with no issues. So I guess it really depends on what kind of soap you make.
Also, I was thinking that your soap may be a bit less sticky if you used a minimum amount of water (perhaps 25% water as a % of oils), that way the soap would hopefully be a bit harder and drier and come off your wood surface easier then softer/watery stuff that takes longer to harder and to saponify.
Just some ideas! Sorry the Shellac idea won't work with CP, but if you do HP might be worth a try.
Good night!
G
Guest
I agree, the recipe has a lot to do with it.
If soap releases from a bar mold, it will release
from anything.
If it sticks to silicone sprayed
freezer paper, then it will stick to anything!
Stearic acid in a recipe goes a long way in
helping soap release easily.
If soap releases from a bar mold, it will release
from anything.
If it sticks to silicone sprayed
freezer paper, then it will stick to anything!
Stearic acid in a recipe goes a long way in
helping soap release easily.
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