MMS/SoapCalc

[bountifulsoaps]

I hate asking this but have always used MMS but reading a few of your posts you all seem to prefer SoapCalc. So, I ran the recipe through theirs and the lye is way different. Scary to me.

MMS 11.02 ounces on a 5 pound just oil batch
SoapCal is 11.53 on the 5 pound just oil batch

11.53 on a MMS batch would be 0 discount but 5 percent on Soap Cal


Any help with this would mean a lot to me. Every once in awhile I do get DOS on citrus bars lime Lime/Orange so have wondered if I am too low on the lye.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Could you tell us the entire recipe, including oils and weights or percentages?

And yes, half an ounce of lye difference over 11.5 ounces is a very large error--4.3%. Something is very not right.

 

[toxikon]

If you want to throw another contender into the ring, I really like Soapee. Nice clean UI (much nicer looking than SoapCalc), everything on the same page, save your recipes, etc. I can't really help with the discrepancies, hopefully someone else can chime in. I assume you're inputting the exact same recipe into both?

 

[penelopejane]

I wouldn’t worry about the difference. All the calculators use their own SAP value for oils which can vary.

It’s best if you can stick to one calculator which works for you as it makes it easier but if you make notes detailed (which calc you used and the lye concentration etc) it doesn’t matter so much.

For instance say SoapCalc 33% lye concentration is equivalent to Soapmaker3 31% lye concentration with the SF I like. It makes no difference in the long run.

SoapCalc is a great calculator as it is detailed and you can adjust everything to your exact requirements.

 

[bountifulsoaps]

Basically it is 32 ounces of Olive, 16 ounces of Coconut and 16 ounces of Palm plus 8 ounces each of Castor Oil and She Butter. 80 ounces of oils. I have always used MMS but have notice it starts to go bad after about 6 - 8 months (DOS) not on all soaps but any with citrus oils as fragrances or if I used the full amount of water in the recipe. Even though I've been making soap for many years, I do not understand a lot of figures so I wanted to see what the quality of my soap was and it seems to fit into all ranges with a INS 160. THEN I NOTICED THE BIG difference in amount of lye to water. Like shocking to me. So I am very confused and want to make soap this week.

 

[SaltedFig]

That's odd. I just input your recipe into soapcalc and it gave me a sodium hydroxide amount of 11.01 ounces for a superfat of 5%.

I do get 11.59 ounces if I put a superfat of 0% in.

Perhaps re-enter the recipe, there may have been a typing error in the oils or figures during entry into the soapcalc recipe (if that's not it, it will take a lot of stepping through to narrow down how the difference was created).

What fragrance percentage did you use when you entered the recipe, and what water amount (or lye concentration) did you use?

 

[bountifulsoaps]

I just did too. You know what I did was I put in Palm Kernel instead of just Palm Oil. I can't believe how big of a difference that was. I thought I was nuts when I redid it on Soap Cal but then saw the different Palm oils. I am now wondering if Coconut 76 or 92 will be a different lye amount or what about Pomance Olive as to virgin Olive?

Thank you for running it also for me. That was very nice of you.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...32 ounces of Olive, 16 ounces of Coconut and 16 ounces of Palm plus 8 ounces each of Castor Oil and She Butter..."

At 5% superfat, your recipe results in 11.01 oz NaOH for Soapcalc and 11.02 oz NaOH from the MMS calc. In other words, I'm getting similar results from both calcs. (And my personal calc is coming up with 11.0 oz). Since I'm not seeing the discrepancy that you are, this makes me wonder if you may have made a typo somewhere.

For example, if I enter 16 oz of palm KERNEL instead of 16 oz of palm, I get 11.53 oz NaOH in Soapcalc and 11.44 oz NaOH for MMS at the same 5% superfat. (And 11.56 oz from my personal calc)

A small difference of about 0.1 oz (about 3 grams) or less isn't anything to worry about. Your difference of 0.5 oz is troubling -- but I don't think it's the fault of the calc.

Edit:
"... I am now wondering if Coconut 76 or 92 will be a different lye amount or what about Pomance Olive as to virgin Olive?..."

You can quick prove it to yourself by running the calculator. But, no, the differences in these two fats don't make a big difference in the NaOH.

 

[bountifulsoaps]

[That is what I did. Did Palm kernel instead of Palm Oil.Took me awhile to figure it out but now I know the difference in some of these oils. I trying to figure out why some go bad but I doubt it is the lye which I buy from red devil. I'm thinking fragrances. I generally use essential oils but buy citrus in fragrances. May not make any this year.

 

[SaltedFig]

Hi again,

Glad you worked out one part of the recipe issue.

Did you want to work through the recipe itself?

There are a lot of knowledgeable people here, whom I'm sure will chime in and help if you want to work out what is causing the DOS.

 

[bountifulsoaps]

I've been trying to figure that out for a long time. I'll make say 8 batches and one always goes bad. I am thinking I might add too much distilled water to those batches or say citrus where you add a high amount to get the scent maybe too much for the lye. You got me I'm guessing.. Never seem to have problems with earthy scents for some reason. Patchouli, Clove, Cinnamon, Cedarwood they last forever with a wonderful scent.Never goes rancid or DOS. Last time I bought Lavender 40/40 from Camden Gray it did not last at all (scent) plus the soap just didn't last. I used almost an ounce to pound of fat and it didn't keep the scent. Never had that problem with them before. I think they sent me something other than the essential oil.

 

[SaltedFig]

How much water are you using in your recipe?

The are a number of things that will trigger DOS (there were a few topics on metals recently).

Lavender EO is known to trigger DOS if it is older or exposed to light/air/high temperatures. Even leaving your bottle out of the fridge in summer, with the lavender out of the light in a cupboard, can be enough to potentially cause troubles. So for the lavender, it needs to be fresh and stored in the fridge. From what I've read, Camden Gray is a quality supplier, so I would suggest that the issue would be age or storage (not a guarantee, but that's where I would start changing things).

 

[bountifulsoaps]

Had no idea lavender needed to be stored in the refrigerator. I've always had pretty good luck with Camden Gray, that bottle was the only one that gave me a problem as an essential oil. Now, I used there lime margarita and it did dos all over the place but I use a lot of the fragrance so I think that might have been the problem with that.

The lavender information you gave may be the problem I've had all along. Is there other essential oils needing to be refrigerated? Always stored in a cabinet. I use to store in an area that wasn't air conditioned but now they are in the house so they are air conditioned in the summer.

 

[SaltedFig]

Hi again, I'll leave it to others to talk about fragrance oils.

As a general rule essentials oils (or any oil, if you have the space) will last longer if it's kept cooler. The aim is to avoid triggering oxidation in the first place (by keeping the light off, the air out and the lid on), and if it's a short-lived oil, then the aim is to slow the oxidation reaction as much as possible, which means cool, dark storage like the refrigerator. The woody scents generally do well enough outside the refrigerator, but florals and citruses seem to need the cool.

 

[toxikon]

A shot in the dark here... but do you cure your soaps on a metal rack? That's a pretty common cause of DOS.

 

[Saranac]

I am now wondering if Coconut 76 or 92 will be a different lye amount

I recently switched from 76 to 92. At the time, SoapersChoice listed different SAP values for them, but not anymore. There wasn't much of a difference, though. Remember, SAP values are averages; you'll drive yourself crazy trying to keep up with it.

As for the citrus oils, I had a bottle of orange go bad, so age may have contributed to the DOS.

 

[bountifulsoaps]

I really never paid any difference to sap or anything else just like how my soap feel. Yesterday was the first time I put it through SoapCal and it did fine, I was happy where it fell between conditioning and all. I am really going to have to look at essential oils causing the dos. I cure on cardboard. Today making two soaps Euc/Mint and one with Lemongrass.