Maximum Coconut Oil Amount?

[madison]

I found that 15% CO with high amounts of tallow 50-70% is very nice for me. The 100 CO%, 20% SF, I made without additives didn't work for me.

 

[DeeAnna]

It is true that a lot of people's skin will be irritated by soap with a high percentage of lauric acid and shorter fatty acids. These soaps are equal opportunity irritants -- almost as many people with normal skin will get irritation from this class of soap as people with dermatitis or sensitive skin.

A smaller percentage of people, however, will get skin irritation from soap made with longer fatty acids -- myristic, palmitic, stearic, oleic, etc. People with sensitive skin or dermatitis are much more likely to show irritation from these soaps, but even a few people with normal skin will also be affected.

For every 100 people who get skin irritation from a soap made with short fatty acids (lauric and shorter), there will be maybe 5-10 people whose skin will be irritated by soap made with the longer fatty acids (myristic and longer).

 

[Soapprentice]

15 is my norm and 20 with fats high in unsaponifiables.

 

[Dean]

15 is my norm and 20 with fats high in unsaponifiables.

A new twist in the soap mystery! I didn't know about unsaponfiables. A search of the forum returns a post that states that oils with low SAP values have more unsaponfiables. A new factor to consider. I wonder if this is what DeeAnna must have meant about considering the context.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...unsaponfiables.... I wonder if this is what DeeAnna must have meant about considering the context...."

No, not really. Ingredients with a low sap value may or may not add mildness -- and they often come with downsides that limit their use in soap.

When I said it's all about context, I was responding to your question: "...maximum percentage of CO that u found to be tolerable?..."

What I was thinking at that moment was whether you use a lot of lard, tallow, palm or butters (high palmitic and stearic), and/or high oleic fats and also other additives -- milks, sugars, aloe, etc. Also the amount of superfat. And what was your skin type, age, the season of the year, humidity in the air, etc.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I wonder if there is a link, perceived or real, between unsaponifiables and decided lather........

 

[BattleGnome]

I noticed a slight link in my liquid soap when using a former pump. After everything clears the former works perfectly, so I have no issue that would require more coconut. I don’t think I’ve used the same formula in bar soap to test it

 

[ItsForrest]

Will the drying, over-cleansing of the CO mellow some with curing?

I am finding with some of my soaps that they are more drying than I like. However, these are batches that have only cured for few weeks.

 

[ksnjas]

I have sensitive skin (no palm or pko because for whatever reason it burns) but am totally fine with high coconut oil. In fact, I prefer it. I made a batch that was 75% co, 15% fractionated Shea oil, and 10% sweet almond oil, and it’s one of my favorite soaps to date. Although the Shea oil might be the culprit, as it cannot fully saponify, if I understand correctly. It also had a 12% SF though.

 

[OrganicSoapGuy]

So much depends on a person's skin-type, the other fats used in the soap formula, the overall superfat, and even the quality of ones bath water (i.e., soft or hard), etc...

My max is 100% CO with a 20% superfat. I call it my "Super-Sudsy" soap. It's a favorite amongst my family.

My salt bars contain 100% CO with a 13% superfat (I also use full-fat coconut milk as my liquid in this formula, which adds an extra cushion of fat, which pushes the overall superfat up to about 20% or so)

In my all-veggie soap formula, I use 28% coconut oil with a 6% superfat (19% total combined lauric/myristic).

In my tallow/lard formula I use 31.5% with an 8% superfat (21% total combined lauric/myristic).


IrishLass

Great answer! If your not a fan of strict fatty-acid calculations, I think the lowest-hanging fruit here is to experiment with your superfatting (overall levels as well as added oils). Irish Lass's 100% CO with 20% superfat is a good example of this. Your user's skin will all be different, as is climate and other factors like lotion brands used. I've found that people respond to the same bar differently, so an exact/ideal CO range or a targeted fatty acid mix will almost always leave some users unhappy. On the other hand, I have yet to find someone that doesn't appreciate some superfatting... Maybe mastering your superfat is the great equalizer!

 

[jcandleattic]

Will the drying, over-cleansing of the CO mellow some with curing?

All soap benefits from a full cure, and like a fine wine or cheese all soap (assuming it's made correctly) will only get better with age. However, even with a full cure or longer, some people just can't handle a high amount of CO.

 

[Dean]

Dr. Bronner’s soap isnt drying even tho the first listed ingredient is CO. I wonder y CO in handmade is so drying...

 

[DeeAnna]

Boy, this is an example of YMMV. Dr Bronners dries my skin to a crisp. Ugh -- hate the stuff.

 

[MullersLaneFarm]

My best soap recipe for this old skin contains a combined lauric/myristic around 20%, however it also has linoleic around 17% and oleic about 45%

 

[Nanditasr]

I never go over 20%, and I prefer to limit it to 10. In fact, I prefer to limit it to zero! I did make a non-CO bar (mainly palmolein) in January. I was initially disappointed because of the zero lather but, three months later, it's fantastic. I'm now tempted to make it using dual lye, in the hope that it may enhance the lather from day one.

 

[Lma]

Good point on the acids. I go animal and palm free so my only source of cleansing acids is CO. Thx for bringing the dicussion bk to the all important chemistry.

Actually, CO is not the only animal and palm free source of cleansing. Have you tried Babassu? It is cleansing (has a high lauric acid content) with similar properties to CO. Some people find it less drying than CO. It is more expensive than CO.

I tend to stick to 20% or less for CO but also make a few CO-free soaps and substitute Babassu with good results.

 

[Dean]

My best soap recipe for this old skin contains a combined lauric/myristic around 20%, however it also has linoleic around 17% and oleic about 45%

I've heard that linoleic over 15% results in DOS. Has that been and issue for your soap?

 

[jcandleattic]

Some people find it less drying than CO

I'm the opposite - I find babassu way more cleansing (aka drying) than coconut oil. I can't use it in soaps. I love it in my lotions, but it's a no-go for me in soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I've heard that linoleic over 15% results in DOS...."

Ahem. I'd like to correct the record, please. What you have heard -- from me at least -- is that some soapers follow a RULE OF THUMB to keep the combined linoleic + linolenic at 15% or less.

It's MORE LIKELY that rancidity may occur at higher amounts of linoleic + linolenic, but no one is saying that rancidity WILL happen. There are so many other variables that affect whether rancidity does occur -- other additives and fats in the recipe, soaping temperatures, storage conditions, the use of antioxidants and chelators, etc.

 

[amd]

Boy, this is an example of YMMV. Dr Bronners dries my skin to a crisp. Ugh -- hate the stuff.

Me too! I bought it once (fortunately a small bottle), used it twice and chucked it.