LS Dilution

[00Mia00]

Hi Soapy Friends!

I made a CP LS using the following recipe:

Coconut Oil: 16.95 oz
Almond Oil: 8.45 oz
Olive Oil: 2.85 oz
KOH: 7 oz
Water: 21.25 oz

I zap tested after 48 hours and all was well. I transferred it to a gallon zip lock bag for storage. I diluted my paste in batches about a week later, at 15% LS paste to 85% distilled water. I added the two to a container at room temperature and letthem sit. Within 6 hours, or less, they had incorporated. I also added 1% Optiphen ND. My intent is to use this as is in a foamer.

Question: I’ve been letting my diluted soap sit and notice this film on the top. The picture is from my final test dilution at the ratio above. If I swirl the container it mixes in but just resurfaces after a bit of time.

Do I need to dilute more? Thoughts?

 

[Susie]

Did you remember that GM contains fat? I show 7.05 oz KOH for 3% SF LS. But that does not account for the fat in the GM. I would not use any milks in LS without decreasing your starting SF. I, personally, would never use any milks in LS, but that is just me.

 

[DeeAnna]

What Susie said. A layer like this is often excess fats and/or fatty acids due to more superfat than this particular soap is able to hold.

Also the proteins in milk may also create cloudy material.

 

[00Mia00]

Ahh! I edited my post. That was intended to say water. NOT goat’s milk. So sorry for the confusion!

Given that we know it’s excess fats, is there anything I can do to help this?

 

[Susie]

Sure, mix together equal parts KOH and water. Add half a teaspoon (2-3 ml) and stir. Wait an hour. If the layer remains, repeat. Easier and less time consuming to use less of a SF. But the beauty of LS is that as long as you don't chuck ingredients in willy-nilly, it is infinitely repairable.

 

[00Mia00]

Thanks so much, @Susie!

Yes, this was definitely a lesson learned I will certainly lessen my superfatting on the next round. I was thrilled that it was still clear, however.

I’m thankful I can save it. I do appreciate your help!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hi @00Mia00 and welcome to the forum! When you have a minute it would be helpful if you could make your presence known on the Introduction Forum. Tell us a little about yourself and especially your soap making experience. That way we'll know if we're talking to either a Newbie or a seasoned veteran or something in between.

Without seeing a copy of your exact formula calculation and knowing what method you used, it's difficult for me to advise you. One thing I can mention is that the paste doesn't look at all like it's ready for the dilution phase. With that combo of oils it should be vaseline-like, amber and translucent. If your paste wasn't fully saponified, and you diluted it at 15% soap to 85% water, what you have floating to the surface is a bit of unsaponified oils which often happens when Newbies go straight from the ZAP test to dilution. It's best to wait at least 24 hours or more. During that time your paste would have continued to saponify to a lovely golden translucent mass.

I like @Susie 's recommendation for adding KOH but I would wait to do it until after a full 2-week sequester to see how much oil settles on the top so you know what you're dealing with.

 

[Susie]

@Zany_in_CO and I are destined to disagree on some things. Sequestering is one of those things. The mandatory appearance of certain pastes are another. I have seen my paste look like that before when I mixed too much air in. Once you get the hang of making soap, yours will start looking vaseline-like. But, as you have a fatty acid layer, I am not worried about your paste zapping. But going forward, always zap test. @Zany_in_CO is going to say to use phenolpthalein, but I find it unnecessary as it does not test whether you are lye heavy or not, just sort of guesses what pH range your soap might be in. You just need to know if it is safe. Not the pH.

 

[00Mia00]

Thanks for your reply, @Zany_in_CO!

One thing I can mention is that the paste doesn't look at all like it's ready for the dilution phase. With that combo of oils it should be vaseline-like, amber and translucent. If your paste wasn't fully saponified, and you diluted it at 15% soap to 85% water, what you have floating to the surface is a bit of unsaponified oils which often happens when Newbies go straight from the ZAP test to dilution. It's best to wait at least 24 hours or more.

The images included were of my paste when I finished mixing. You’re right, it definitely wasn’t ready for diluting at that point.

From here, my paste sat for 48 hours prior to zap testing and then another 5 days or so prior to diluting.

I’ve included a picture of my paste in the bag at the diluting stage below. It looked pretty good and as expected, I think.

Thanks again for all of the feedback!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

my paste sat for 48 hours prior to zap testing and then another 5 days or so prior to diluting.

Excellent!

Thanks again for all of the feedback!

You're most welcome. The paste does look pretty good and ready to dilute.

@Susie I have no problem with others using the ZAP test and I don't mean to offend anyone if I find using phenolphthalein drops to be more reliable. My comment was based on my 10 years' troubleshooting experience on the Liquid Soapers Yahoo Group.

 

[00Mia00]

Well. I feel like my soap is a lost cause. Which is fine, if I can figure out why or how to tweak my recipe to prevent the issue in the future.

When I diluted, I used 15% soap paste to 85% distilled water. I diluted two separate batches into gallon containers, using 18 oz soap paste and 102 oz distilled water. I did as recommended and started out by mixing 1 ounce of lye with 1 ounce of distilled water. I added 1/2 tsp every 3-4 hours, mixing and letting it settle in between. So far, I've added 1 ounce of lye/water per gallon container of diluted LS. Recalculating my recipe, this should result in a lye heavy soap, however I still have the fatty acids floating about.

Do I keep adding and see if it eventually resolves? Is it safe to say it isn't going to correct? If I remake my recipe, reducing my superfat to 0% or .25%, what are the chances I will still have this issue?

Any thoughts are welcome!

 

[Susie]

1. I would let your soap sit overnight at this point before adding more.
2. Liquid soap can easily handle 3% SF if you aren't adding a lot of FO/EO. If you are, cut down to 1-2%. If you just want to keep a high SF + FO/EO, then invest in some PS80 that will emulsify your extra SF.
3. Why so much water to so little paste?
4. Are you using a lye calculator?

 

[00Mia00]

I’ve been adding in the morning and evening and letting it sit for 12 hours in between since Sunday morning for fear of adding too much. I will give it a day or so.

The additional water is because this will be used in a foamer.

Yes, I use SoapMaker software for all of my soaping recipes. I also use soapmakingfriend.com to double check.