Low pH body bar using Ammonium Lauryl Sulphate

[PerthMobility]

G'day all,

I am trying to produce a body lotion bar with a pH of between 5.5 - 6.5 along the lines of:

420g Shea Butter
420g Beef Tallow
60g Beeswax
60g Oliv Wax
50g Sandalwood Sensuous FO
50g Ammonium lauryl sulphate
10g Germall Plus


Any comments or suggestions will be most welcome. Thank you.


Cheers
Mac

 

[shunt2011]

I guess my first question is why are you adding Ammonium lauryl sulphate to a lotion bar to begin with?

 

[Soapmaker145]

I second Shunt's question. A detergent isn't something I would want in a body bar. I would imagine it would be very irritating. The pH without it should be a little below 7 anyway.

 

[PerthMobility]

Thank you for your replies. The answer is because we need a surfactant that will not increase the pH. Without that there is no lather, of course and very much reduced skin cleaning ability.

Secondly I need to adjust the pH to ageing skin that is in the range 5.5 - 6.5 to avoid some of the problems that are occuring with saponification which leaves the average block of soap well above a pH of 8.0.

It is of course, most often the fact that we apply product to our skin that is very different from the pH of the skin that causes irritation and rashes.

One well known brand of "Beauty Cream Bar" has a pH of 7.0 and as a result is often recommended for ageing skin. Another brand of "Beauty Bar" sold world wide through a very large chain of retailers has a pH of 10.0 which will almost certainly cause problems with ageing and sensitive skin.

Soapmaker145 you are quite correct the pH without the surfactant is a little below 7.0 but I want both the surfactant and an even slightly lower pH.

Many thanks for your input.

 

[shunt2011]

Okay, now I understand. You said lotion bar and that's a different thing altogether. I make lotion bars for moisturizing. U fortunately, I can't help with a cleansing bar but you may want to look more at a solid shampoo type thing.

 

[artemis]

G'day all,

I am trying to produce a body lotion bar...

So, you are making soap, or a "solid lotion" bar? My experience with "lotion bars" is a bar made of beeswax and butters and rubbed on the hands instead of using a regular creamy lotion...?

 

[artemis]

Never mind- I see my question has been answered

 

[cmzaha]

If it is the Dove Beauty Cream Bar it is just a syndet bar, which as Shunt mentioned is basically the same as solid shampoo bars.

 

[PerthMobility]

Thanks Carolyn, yes it is the one I am referring to and thanks for sorting the correct name for me. I should obviously be referring to my bar as a "solid shampoo bar".

It seems that I am trying to make a solid shampoo bar with a pH of about 5.5 - 6.5 with a surfacant and lather for skin cleaning?

 

[Soapmaker145]

It seems that I am trying to make a solid shampoo bar with a pH of about 5.5 - 6.5 with a surfacant and lather for skin cleaning?

If you're looking for anything cleansing, you won't be using a soap base. It'll be a mix of your favorite detergents. You can call it a shampoo bar or whatever else you like. Head to the Point of interest! blog (swiftcraftymonkey) to learn more about the various ingredients available. She has plenty of recipes to get you started. Just forget about the lauryl sulfate. It's harsh regardless of pH.

The mildest cleanser is plain oil. L'Occitane makes a cleansing almond oil that washes readily that might be what you're looking for. It's probably one of the mildest cleansers.

The skin doesn't care about the pH all that much. It's mostly a marketing gimmick. The quality of the ingredients is a different story.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

This last sentence is spot on - low pH is not the silver bullet it is touted to be.

 

[PerthMobility]

Thank you gentlemen. Good information and I have taken it on board.

 

[Susie]

Remember that the skin sheds cells all day, every day. The pH of the soap you use right now will affect the skin for less than 2 hours typically. The ingredients, however, can affect the skin for much, much longer. Especially if you dry it out too much with something that strips all the oils.

 

[cmzaha]

One of the gentlest rated baby bars has a high ph. I cannot remember offhand which one it is

 

[PerthMobility]

Thank you to everyone that contributed here. This has come out at a pH of 5.7 which is right where I wanted it. It is as smooth as silk and I will report any application problems if/when they occur. The sharp eyed will note that I have taken out the word tallow (animal fat) and used the components in listing the ingredients on the label.

40.0% Shea butter
15.0% Oleic acid
12.0% Palmatic acid
10.0% Stearic acid
6.0% Beeswax
6.0% Oliv wax
5.0% Ammonium lauryl sulphate
2.0% Myristic acid
2.0% Plantaserv M
0.5% alpha-Linolenic acid
0.5% Fragrance oil (Sensous sandalwood)

 

[DeeAnna]

If you are actually using tallow, then the proper ingredient name is tallow or whatever the INCI name is for tallow. You cannot simply list the fatty acids found in tallow -- that is not a proper ingredients list.

Tallow is a triglyceride fat, meaning a molecule that has a backbone of glycerin with three fatty acids bonded to it. A triglyceride is not a mixture of individual fatty acids, which is what your last ingredients list implies.

 

[PerthMobility]

Thank you for that DeeAnna. I am learning all the time.

Also the end product is not as it should be with a very small lather. I half expected this so I shall reformulate.