Liquid Soap

[Bobbie.1960]

I am new to this soapy thing and man have I gone all in. I was looking for a way to make my all natural dog shampoo have more lather and thicker.
I discovered the dual lye soap paste and made it this weekend. It did it! It made the lather and thickness I needed.
I am surprised at just how easy it was to make and cook.As I read many of these posts, I think, man one has to be chemist to make soap. I have learned that’s NOT true. I key is to find a soap maker who is will to break it down. I personally LOVE Mrs. Soap and Clay. I be learned more from her than I did in reading the three books I bought.

 

[squarepancakes]

Her videos are sooooo long but yes, I actually really enjoy her sass. I've yet to try her recipes but am planning to make the soap paste recipe she shared.

 

[AliOop]

I like her channel too, and her recipes are pretty good. She has a funny sense of humor, for sure, and she is very generous with her knowledge.

I am concerned about her recommendation to use glass mixing containers for lye solution. While there may be different opinions about whether borosilicate glass can be etched by lye, there is always the danger of the glass container being dropped or knocked over. The only thing worse than a spill of hot caustic lye solution, is a spill of hot caustic lye solution with shards of glass in it!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I personally LOVE Mrs. Soap and Clay. I be learned more from her than I did in reading the three books I bought.

Could you please share a link?

I've been making LS since 2004 when I was a member of the Liquid Soap Makers Yahoo Group (Now defunct) for over 10 years. I'm always looking for good places to send Newbies to learn how to make LS.

TIA (Thanks in Advance)

 

[Bobbie.1960]

Is the link.

 

[tlh.earthessentials]

Ms.Soap & Clay I love her video, I tried this soap past method still have not used the paste

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Thank you for sharing the video. What a hoot! I can see why you like her. However, her knowledge of making LS is greatly lacking, so much so, that I don't know where to start!

To get off on the right foot, here's a link to where you can learn the basics for making LS:

Alaiyna B Blogspot - Basic Beginner Liquid Soap

Be sure to read all of her tutorials for LS to learn more.

I tried this soap past method still have not used the paste

Wait for 1-2 weeks before diluting to allow the paste to reach full saponification. TIP: LS high in Olive Oil uses more water than LS high in Coconut Oil.

Guide to Diluting LS

I have taught many soap makers how to CP LS. Some of them continue to do it that way. Here's a thread that discusses CP LS where you can learn more:

Cold Process Liquid Soap

 

[DeeAnna]

I found it interesting that her calibrated pH meter said the pH was 10.8, her cheap paper test strips said the pH was 7-8, and she seemed to believe the paper strips more than she believed the meter. That just doesn't make sense especially since she touts her chemistry background. A calibrated, well maintained, decent quality meter is always more reliable and accurate than any pH test strip, especially the paper ones. And that is even more true when testing soap.

Paper test strips are really inaccurate in soap; they usually read 2-3 units lower than the pH actually is. If you apply that error correction to the result she got with her paper strips, the real pH is in the 10-11 range. That agrees with her pH meter and is a more realistic answer for the pH of a high oleic (high olive oil) soap.

 

[WeLoveWabiSabi]

I really like her too. I know some people don't agree with everything she says but I take the knowledge and leave opinions behind. We all do things differently. She is really fun to watch and I love her humor. Her husband is in the glass industry, so has addressed the "etching" claims, and said that just isn't a thing. Of course glass could break at any time, especially if dropped so that could be a safety issue, but it doesn't look like she's carrying it around her shop or anything. I just use plastic, it works for me. Also, she admittedly doesn't often make or even like to make LS. So, it is what it is. I was thinking I might find better instructions elsewhere as I did try it and it didn't turn out. But I do love the soap paste recipe she gives....the most recent one. It's great in my sugar soap scrubs. And it's really easy to make, though I might like to try a CP SP for my next batch of LS.

Here are a few issues I've had with it, and if anyone has any advice....or maybe a whole new recipe, please share. I attempted to add water to it (after it sat for a few weeks) to make the LS and ended up with one batch which was consistent and clear but a bit thin. Soap paste:water was 1:2. There were, oddly a few floaties in it. like little specks of soap that just wouldn't dissolve. otherwise it was pretty good. I was hoping for something thicker, this wouldn't work that well in a soap pump bottle because it's too runny.

Then I tried it again, but it kept separating. I have no idea why. So after a few weeks (I just kept forgetting them sitting in containers on top of my microwave, so it ended up being a long process). lol. Anyway, I whisked it and it turned to a thick (slightly stringy, but not overly so) pearly white thick soap, but again separated. No matter what I did, it kept separating with a little water in the bottom. I did add some more water today to see what happens to it, but that will take some time.

Today I just decided to try again.

So I started with a few ounces, and half the amount of water as SP to start as I have seen it done adding water gradually until it's absorbed, then adding more. Then I thought I should have heated the water a bit to maybe speed it up, and so just tossed it in the microwave for 30 seconds. It is clear and seems to be melting fine, but taking a long time. Then I decided to try another bigger batch, and decided to put warm water right in it. I microwaved the water for thirty seconds and when I dumped it into the soap paste, it turned white! Like milk. I have no idea what happened but it's so weird. Any ideas what happened here? This soap paste has been around a few months so I don't think it's a saponification issue.

I'm considering just trying dumping it in the crock pot with water and seeing if it melts better that way. But my crock pots warm setting stopped working and low might be too high. I guess I could use a double broiler. has anyone here done that?

@Zany_in_CO I haven't yet checked your recommendations, but that's where I'm headed next. I'm just wondering if anyone could understand why I got so many different results from the same SP recipe. I mean I'm not all that scientific about it, and may have added water at different intervals in each batch, but they all ended up with the same ratio yet they're all so vastly different.

 

[AliOop]

@Zany_in_CO I haven't yet checked your recommendations, but that's where I'm headed next. I'm just wondering if anyone could understand why I got so many different results from the same SP recipe. I mean I'm not all that scientific about it, and may have added water at different intervals in each batch, but they all ended up with the same ratio yet they're all so vastly different.

I don't want to sound like I'm scolding you, but you keep trying different things without understanding the basics of liquid soapmaking. Most of what has happened to your soap is very predictable based on what you did.

Before trying any more things, do read some of the links and articles Zany gave you, or Ann Watson's Liquid Soapmaking book (which might be available at your library). If you are up for spending about $45, you could invest in the Ultimate Guide to Liquid Soap. But you need to start with the very basics, and from someone more well-versed in liquid soap than Mrs. Soap and Clay.

BTW, her claim about borosilicate glass not etching is bogus. The website for the company that makes borosilicate for Dow-Corning was quite clear that highly alkaline substances (think: LYE SOLUTION) will indeed weaken and corrode glass over time. I don't think you can get a more definitive source than that. You can also talk to the numerous folks who have used Pyrex containers for years, only to have them suddenly shatter with lye solution in them. I heard that someone in the SMF Facebook group just posted about that a day or so ago.

 

[WeLoveWabiSabi]

As I understand it is surface scratches that make the glass weaker. If someone is using a stick blender with the glass, It could scratch it for sure. Chemists use glass beakers for these type of substances. Not something I really want to argue about. But wouldn't using a crock pot be a similar concern. While it's not straight up lye solution in the pot, couldn't the stick blender scratch it and make it weak? Just questions. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject by any means. I personally don't prefer using it because I don't want to drop by accident, but I really don't know. I do know that I've broken enough pyrex containers in my kitchen while baking to know that I don't want any part of that mess. As far as Mrs. S&C, I've tried several of her other recipes (not LS) and they were great. She has a lot of knowledge about the products she makes and often shows what happens when you try different techniques or recipes. I like that. I wouldn't write her off due to a disagreement over how she uses glass. You can choose not to use it yourself if that is your preference, as I think most people do.

I have watched a lot of videos on how different people make LS. While, No, I don't understand how all of this works scientifically, I'm just giving it a go for personal use. I bet most of the people here didn't know all the science behind it before trying HP or CP soap either. Heck, I bet most still don't after making it for many years. You have to start somewhere and you learn as you go.

I'm sorry if my asking about why these things happened annoyed you @AliOop. I joined the forum because this seems like a good place to go for answers. I could scour the web, watch 20 videos, read a few books and read a few dozen blog posts about how to make LS (and I have already done a good share of that), but in the end, who has time for all that?...especially when all the real knowledge is right here.

 

[AliOop]

Honestly, I wasn't annoyed at all... which is why I started my last post by reassuring you that I wasn't scolding you. I really was giving you my best advice in an effort to help you. You try different random things, and then when you don't understand the results, you do something else to it, and then don't understand those results, either.

So my advice is to start with one LS recipe. If something happens that you don't understand, come post a question here before trying to "fix" it. While someone may not be available immediately, usually you will receive an answer within a day or so. And your LS will usually be fine on its own while you wait for help to arrive. But it's hard for us to help when you've taken four or five steps to try and correct something that doesn't sound like it was broken to begin with.

Regarding the glass beakers... yes, chemists do use them, and they replace them frequently due to the weakening of the glass over time. Crock pots do etch, too. Personally I use stainless steel or #5 plastic containers for my lye solution and for mixing soap batter.

EDIT: FWIW, I will repeat what I said above... I like Mrs. Soap and Clay and find her videos enjoyable. She can be helpful for learning basic recipes and processes. But she typically doesn't give you the background info you need to troubleshoot. LS is more complex than bar soap, IMO, and learning some of the science behind it will help you know what to do when something doesn't go quite the way she showed in the video.

 

[WeLoveWabiSabi]

I understand that you weren't scolding. But saying I didn't understand the basics, and not suggesting any reasons these things may have happened indicated to me that you weren't interested in offering any suggestions. Yes, I'm definitely new at LS. But I've done a lot of looking into how to do it before I gave it a go. And there are so many different ways people make it, you kind of just have to jump in with something and see what happens.

Here's what I did in case I wasn't clear enough.
I used one soap paste recipe.
I didn't try to "fix" it.
I tried several different ways to dilute it, in several different containers, using several different methods that I noted above.
I got varied inconsistent results when diluting the SP with not a lot of variations. (only hot/cold water and different amounts of water.

And I was just curious why I would get so many different results.

First Try: (using room temp water) One is a clear tan soapy color but thin, and one is pearly, slightly stringy, and separates slightly with a clear tan soapy look on the bottom maybe 5%. I did whisk that one because it wouldn't dilute, so possibly bubbles.
Second Try: (thinking heated water might help) One went completely white like paint when I added heated water. And one so far is looking ok which is the one I put in the microwave for about 20 seconds. It's similar to the first one in the first batch. They both are still taking a long time for the water to "soak into" the paste. Others I've seen don't seem to take so long.

I've literally let it sit for a week the first time and the second one on the second first try just wouldn't incorporate...hence the whisk.

Mostly I'm really curious about the white one. And how to get it thicker, which seems to be an issue with a lot of LS'ers.

btw, all of the above was made with the same dual lye HP SP recipe. I just made small batches when diluting to experiment with the consistency.

 

[AliOop]

I guess I should be clearer about what I am suggesting: read the materials that Zany provided. You will get at least some of your answers there. If you learn better by video, then Elly's Everyday has a very thorough LS tutorial that may also give you some clues. Focus on the parts about correct dilution. How you dilute does make a huge difference, especially when it comes to heat (or no heat) and the amount of water. Learning correct dilution process will answer most of your questions.

Liquid soapmaking is fairly complex. When a question on a thread shows that someone doesn't understand the basics, rather than trying to type out long explanations, we will suggest good resources for you to check out so you can fill in your knowledge gaps. Then we can help with more specific questions that don't require us to write out a LS tutorial in a single post.

I hope that makes sense, and I hope you can see that those of us who have responded here are responding in the way that we believe will be of the most help to you.

 

[WeLoveWabiSabi]

I've watched that video. And it's a good one. But it's also a potassium hydroxide recipe. Mine is dual lye, and like I said, I'm trying to figure out why I got different results from the same batch. For instance, cloudy is one thing, but pure white is a whole other thing.

 

[Susie]

I've watched that video. And it's a good one. But it's also a potassium hydroxide recipe. Mine is dual lye, and like I said, I'm trying to figure out why I got different results from the same batch. For instance, cloudy is one thing, but pure white is a whole other thing.

Are you using distilled water? Using tap or well water can bring unexpected results.
I have made many dual lye liquid soaps, and at every 5% of NaOH:KOH ratio. I have never had one come out white. Might I get your full recipe?

As for getting thicker LS, the only way to get it thicker is to add a thickener. Period. You just have to understand that going into it.

 

[WeLoveWabiSabi]

Are you using distilled water? Using tap or well water can bring unexpected results.
I have made many dual lye liquid soaps, and at every 5% of NaOH:KOH ratio. I have never had one come out white. Might I get your full recipe?

As for getting thicker LS, the only way to get it thicker is to add a thickener. Period. You just have to understand that going into it.

Yes, I use distilled water for everything. I mentioned above that I used Mrs. Soap & Clay's dual lye soap paste recipe from her video. It only turns white when I add hot water to it. I don't have it in front of me right now but when I do, I'll try to remember to come back and post.