Liquid Soap Preservative UK

[CarolinePJCoram]

Hi there, I've already had some great advise on Liquid Soap making on here but wanted to ask one more question. We are in the UK and there seem to be very few natural based preservatives for Liquid Soap. GeoGuard is not suitable as the pH max is 8 I believe... as is Optiphen (even though I can't even source this here in the UK). Does anyone have any suggestions for natural based preservative for Liquid soap with a pH of around 10? Thanks!

 

[Susie]

If you are not selling the soap, it does not need a preservative.

 

[CarolinePJCoram]

Hi Suzie... I am selling the soap at large national fairs in the uk - Chatsworth and Burghley Horse trials to name a couple. It's really important I get this soap right.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with Susie. I don't add a preservative to mine but I'm not selling it yet either.

 

[CarolinePJCoram]

OK. Do you know anyone who has produced to sell liquid soap with success on the preservative front? I'm currently looking at a combination of Vitamin E and Benzyl Alcohol... wondering if that is the most natural I'm going to get....

 

[Susie]

Vit E is not a preservative. It is an antioxidant. It will not keep your soap from growing beasties. I have never used benzyl alcohol, so I am not any help there.

 

[CarolinePJCoram]

Hmmm, Dr Bonnard uses Vitamin E for this purpose. I'm totally stumped! I'm going to try it and see how that goes. Most of my EO mixes have good levels of antimicrobials in them... crossing fingers!

 

[Lindy]

According to a Safety Assessor (Scott of Cosmetic Safety Assessment) you don't need a preservative for any soap product because the pH is too high to make a friendly environment to mold or bacteria. Yes bacteria lives everywhere, including on us, but the bad type in our products does not live in this environment.

 

[biarine]

Hi Caroline try to call new direction aromatics UK or www.plushfolly.com as well maybe they can give you some advice, they have plenty of preservatives maybe they can help you to find a right one.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I don't think that 'Dr' Bonner is any kind of reference point, apart from a how-to in false advertising.

I would also speak to my safety assessor first. Scott is knowledgable (I'll be using his company when I come to sell) and I would be happy with his view. But you should check with yours.

And please, I know I am a bleating goat on this, please don't sell the soap until you've used it yourself for a while.

 

[Susie]

No, Dr. B probably uses Vit E as an antioxidant in the oils BEFORE making soap with it. I went to their site and copied a list of ingredients for you:

https://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/BABYMILD/OLBA02.html

Water, Organic Coconut Oil*, Potassium Hydroxide**, Organic Olive Oil*, Organic Hemp Oil, Organic Jojoba Oil, Citric Acid, Tocopherol

Please note that there is no preservative in there. And before you think that the citric acid is being used as a preservative, it is not. They almost certainly make lye heavy soap(for clarity), then pH balance with a citric acid solution to bring it down to a safe pH level. There is also the distinct possibility that they are adding Vit E as strictly "label appeal".

If you are selling the soap, then you need to go by what a safety assessor says. There really is no need unless you are adding ingredients(such as anything sugary) during dilution that will provide a better medium for bacterial/fungal growth. This is why we say to dilute with water only. The pH is just too high for any pathogens to survive.

If you are that concerned about your soap growing "stuff", how about just diluting what you need from paste as you need it? I routinely store paste and dilute as I need it. I keep my paste in the fridge, not that I need to, but I won't lose it if it is there. I just put the cooled paste into a Ziploc bag with the name, date, and dilution rate written right on it. That way there is no guessing what it is.

I am also going to reiterate what Craig said. If you have not been making liquid soap for a while, you are not ready to sell. There are so very many different recipes to try to see what you like best, that you won't know if you are selling your "very best" until you have tried many batches on friends and family.

I don't think it will take a year like bar soap does, but if you are still this worried about preservatives, longer than this. Because if you will make some soap, label it with name and date made, and set it aside, you will see that it does not grow stuff for yourself. Then you will not be worried about preservatives any longer.

 

[CarolinePJCoram]

Hi All. Thanks so much for your advise. I am trying to get something back from Scott at the moment but he is always so busy I know it will be a wait. Have put a call in to Aromantics to see if they can shed any light.

Oh, and does anyone use a pH meter rather than the test strips. Is there a good one that doesn't cost a fortune?

 

[Susie]

I ordered one off the internet that came with calibration liquid and instructions(if you can't calibrate it, it is worthless). It was really affordable.

Here is a link to the one I ordered:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PU0W35K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[CarolinePJCoram]

Got one, thanks Susie.

 

[Saponista]

There's this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0076365K8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

But I don't know what the pH limits for it are and looking at reviews I think it smells quite strong.

I really don't think there is a perfect effective natural preservative, but it's what customers want so we all keep looking.

 

[DeeAnna]

PRESERVING PRODUCTS WITH PH BETWEEN 8 AND 10 e.g. LIQUID SOAP

Cold process soap (made with sodium hydroxide) does not need a preservative.

For other high pH products such as liquid soap, generally if the pH is above 10 a preservative may not be required.

If the pH is below 10, an expert microbiologist advises liquid Germall Plus can be used (despite the supplier recommended use below pH 8).

Alternatively, Suttocide A (see below for downsides) or Glydant Plus can be used.

For the complete article, see: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/

 

[edytamaryniak]

I have the same problem. I make liquid soaps and I am strugling with preservatives. I believe we should always add preservatives to liquid soaps if we sell them as it is our responsibility to creat product that is good and safe for custumers. You never know what will they do with your soap. About Dr B I also think he adds citric acid to lye. But I've been read that citric acid is preservative if added 2-3% in solution. I add 20g for 1000 oils and additional 16g of KOH in this case. I also have found some company that sell natural preservative, it has 4 ingridients: Benzyl Alcohol, Salicylic Acid, Glycerine, Sorbic Acid. But I think I can not to say anymore that soap is natural. I use it 1% to my water phase. I am not sure, and I can't understand how Dr B can sell his soap only with vitamin E and citric acid. No more preservatives? Impossible