Liquid Shave Soap

[Gertrude]

My husband asked if it would be possible to make a shave soap that could be used in a hot lather dispenser. Based on the current product he uses, the consistency is closer to a shower gel but it has a really rich lather similar to shave soap. It is further diluted with water when placed in the dispenser.

For example, if I use the following shave soap recipe using the hot process method, am I able to add water to dilute it, similar to liquid soap after it has cooled?

Avocado Oil at 10%
Castor Oil at 10 %
Coconut Oil at 10
Kokum Butter at 14%
Shea Butter at 14%
Stearic Acid at 38%
Sunflower Oil at 4%

This recipe uses KOH only. The exact amounts for the recipe aren't listed because this is a recipe printed in a book and it isn't mine. It is just an example and not necessarily an exact recipe I will use. I am just curious to see if maybe I am on the right track.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm guessing his current product is not actually a soap -- I'm wondering if it may be a synthetic detergent or possibly a syndet-soap blend. Care to share the name of what he uses, so we can confirm the ingredient list?

A KOH soap with a high % of stearic acid will be difficult to dilute to a shower gel consistency (or thinner) without a struggle. The texture of this type of soap normally ranges from a firm putty to a stringy jelly over a wide range of water content.

But give it a try! I'd love to hear if you can make it work.

 

[Gertrude]

I was just reading all of your posts on the "My first shave is a success thread"! I have learned so much from you!

These are the ingredients on the package:
Aqua, Myristic acid, Stearic acid, Glycerin, Potassium hydroxide, Camellia sinensis (White tea) leaf extract, Glycyrrhiza glabra (Licorice) root extract, Hedychium coronarium (White ginger) root extract, Olea europaea (Olive) leaf extract, Pinus pinaster (Maritime pine) bark extract, Punica granatum (Pomegranate) extract, Rosmarinus officinalis (Rosemary) leaf extract, Theobroma cacao (Cocoa) extract Vitus vinifra (Grape) seed extract, Tocopheryl acetate, Methyl gluceth-20, Butyrospermum parkii (Shea butter), Aloe barbadensis leaf juice, Polyquaternium-7, Eucalyptus globulus leaf extract, Mentha viridis (Spearmint) leaf oil, Tocopherol, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Tetrasodium EDTA.

My husband corrected me and told me that it was more of a cream consistency than shower gel. It looks like they are making a KOH soap but adding more conditioning, vitamin E and thickener to it after watering it down. I am not sure.

I am going to give it a try tonight to see how it goes.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yep, I stand corrected. It is a soap, not a syndet or blend. Myristic acid is the first fatty acid listed, so this is not a stearic-heavy recipe like most of those in the long "Songwind" thread you've been reading.

 

[Gertrude]

Your suggestion of adding the stearic acid after getting a thick trace with the other oils really helped with my other soaps seizing so quickly!

My new concern is that the recipe I posted is too high in stearic acid (55% of the recipe is stearic acid when combined with the shea butter and kokum butter based on Soapee's calculator). Do you think increasing the myristic acid (increasing the coconut oil) and lowering the stearic acid would impact the creamy lather brought on by the stearic acid? Based on your reply in another thread, it also seems like too high stearic may contribute to separation when the soap is added to water.

I saw this is another liquid soap forum thread:
" I’ve tried 2:1 and 1.5:1. 1.5:1 (lye to water ratio) gets almost too hard and 1:2 is okay but a bit slimey, so, for me, 1.7:1 is the ideal."

Have you ever adjusted the lye to water ratio might change the consistency of the soap?

 

[Kcryss]

I saw this is another liquid soap forum thread:
" I’ve tried 2:1 and 1.5:1. 1.5:1 (lye to water ratio) gets almost too hard and 1:2 is okay but a bit slimey, so, for me, 1.7:1 is the ideal."

Have you ever adjusted the lye to water ratio might change the consistency of the soap?

I don't know if this helps or not, I've been reading a lot of LS info recently and this one is really helpful: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/liquid-soap-intimidation.77191/#post-799139

It's an older post, but someone commented on it yesterday.

 

[Gertrude]

Thank you for this great recommendation! I was just starting to read this thread by the same person and it has a lot of great info as well!
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/

 

[Gertrude]

Update:

I used the above recipe as my initial test last night. The recipe doesn't specific where to cook the batch but I cooked it on the stovetop (never again!) for roughly 5 minutes. This afternoon, roughly 12 hours later, there is a partial gel and it is pretty hard. When mixed with water, it is cloudy but with the high stearic acid, I am assuming the cloudy appearance comes from the unsaponifiables in the recipe. When I did the zap test, there was no zap but I am still paranoid about it being lye heavy (yes, I checked the recipe a few times).

I definitely need to lower the stearic acid content and increase the coconut oil in the recipe. I am going to add additional water today in a crock pot on low to see if I can adjust the consistency to more of a paste. I cannot tell if it is a fail...

 

[Dumfrey]

Typically with a shaving soap, the idea is to make a "paste" on the soap bar/puck with the shaving brush, and then incorporate air and water into the soap with a brush (lather).

By diluting the soap paste with water (to make liquid soap) you are removing the need to add water to the soap with the brush.
By using the soap in a foaming dispenser, you are removing the need to work in air.

This sounds very fun!

Would be a different experience than traditional brush and bar, but different is not the same as bad

Please let me know how this turns out.

A foaming liquid shave dispenser would be amazingly convenient!