Liquid castile soap, from scratch or from bars?

[rosetown]

Hi all,
I'm about to make some liquid soaps and after all research I've noticed that castile soap is used for many different products as a base.
Now I'm not sure if I should make castille soap from scratch with KOH or
make some castile soap bars with potassium carbonate(lye) and then add water.
What do you think? I'm not sure if there will be a difference between making the liquid soap with KOH, or making it from regular bars and water(diluting)
Not sure if I should make it with 100% olive oil, or maybe add some other oils? I know that It wont lather much but it will be very mild.

1: If I make a liquid soap with KOH and crocpot, how much superfat should I calculate with, 0%, 3% etc?
2: If I make cp castile soapbars with lye should I use the standard 5% superfat (soapcalc) or less?
I hope that you understand my question.

To sum it up, I would like to know the fastest and easiest way to do a liquid castile soap, how much to superfat and would you recommend to use 100% olive oil or would it be smarter to add some other oils like coconut,castor or sunflower?


Have a great weekend!

 

[Susie]

If you try to grate up bar soap to turn into liquid soap, you will get a snotty consistency mess that you will then have to dispose of. Trust me, we have tried.

You can easily make liquid soap using a cold process and KOH. It is no more complicated than CP bar soap, although it will take a bit longer to get to the proper trace for KOH, which is a thick paste.

Superfat is up to you. If you plan to use this for washing skin(as opposed to dishes or laundry), I would use 3% superfat.

Oils are up to you. However, pure OO liquid soap is not the best on lather and such. I would suggest some CO and castor added to that recipe.

Here is a link to a thread I started, and one to an excellent discussion of liquid soap making. The second one is long, but so full of awesome info that you would do yourself a disservice by not reading it.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852&highlight=cold+process+liquid+soap

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114&highlight=soaping+liquid+glycerin+soap

 

[Obsidian]

Lye used in soap is sodium hydroxide, not potassium carbonate. Susie is right though, grated bars turn snotty when diluted. If you want liquid soap you must use KOH.

 

[JayJay]

If you try to grate up bar soap to turn into liquid soap, you will get a snotty consistency mess that you will then have to dispose of. Trust me, we have tried.

You can easily make liquid soap using a cold process and KOH. It is no more complicated than CP bar soap, although it will take a bit longer to get to the proper trace for KOH, which is a thick paste.

Superfat is up to you. If you plan to use this for washing skin(as opposed to dishes or laundry), I would use 3% superfat.

Oils are up to you. However, pure OO liquid soap is not the best on lather and such. I would suggest some CO and castor added to that recipe.

Here is a link to a thread I started, and one to an excellent discussion of liquid soap making. The second one is long, but so full of awesome info that you would do yourself a disservice by not reading it.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852&highlight=cold+process+liquid+soap

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114&highlight=soaping+liquid+glycerin+soap

Thanks for the links Susie. Liquid soap is on my "to learn" list.

 

[lsg]

I make liquid soap with the glycerin method. It is the easiest recipe that I have found.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6brP--yQpU[/ame]

 

[IrishLass]

If you're looking for the quickest, easiest way, to make liquid soap, the glycerin method sure is hard to beat. It's basically the only reason why I am able to make any liquid soap at all. lol

Now I'm not sure if I should make castille soap from scratch with KOH or
make some castile soap bars with potassium carbonate(lye) and then add water.

Definitely make it from scratch with the KOH. It will be much, much easier. Making soap with potassium carbonate is the way soft soap used to be made back in pioneer days. To make a hard bar soap out of it, pioneers would salt it out. Also, potassium carbonate (K2CO3) is about half as strong as KOH, which means extra math will be need to be employed to make sure you're adding enough of the carbonate to be able to saponify your oils. One of our members experimented with making soap using potassium carbonate a few years ago, and it just looks like so much more work than it is worth: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=13704


IrishLass

 

[HappyHomeSoapCo]

Now I'm adding glycerine liquid soap to my to do list. That's pretty cool. So does it not need a long cure?

 

[Susie]

You do not need to cure liquid soap. Once it is zapless, you dilute and use.

 

[JayJay]

I make liquid soap with the glycerin method. It is the easiest recipe that I have found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6brP--yQpU

You do not need to cure liquid soap. Once it is zapless, you dilute and use.

..... So, there is a way to make soap more quickly and easily than CP bar soap AND it's ready immediately?!?!?!?!?!! No waiting????????????

What's the catch? What's the downside?

 

[Obsidian]

The downside? not being able to use a decent SF so its generally drying and it has poor lather, at least this is my experience.

 

[JayJay]

The downside? not being able to use a decent SF so its generally drying and it has poor lather, at least this is my experience.

I see. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[lsg]

I think that using coconut, palm and Castor oil will give you more bubbles.

 

[JayJay]

I think that using coconut, palm and Castor oil will give you more bubbles.

Recipe being the same, does one yield more lather than the other?

 

[DeeAnna]

"..Also, potassium carbonate (K2CO3) is about half as strong as KOH, which means extra math will be need to be employed to make sure you're adding enough of the carbonate to be able to saponify your oils. One of our members experimented with making soap using potassium carbonate a few years ago, and it just looks like so much more work than it is worth: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=13704 ..."

Irish Lass -- Donnie's numbers in the thread you referenced ( http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=13704 ) don't agree with the theoretical stoichiometry of the saponification reaction when using sodium carbonate or potassium carbonate as the lye.

To put it in everyday terms, he didn't use enough of either carbonate lye to fully saponify the fat. I'm calculating he used only about 87% of the sodium carbonate and 73% of the potassium carbonate he should have used. I suspect that's why he had such poor luck with his experiment. He also didn't say how much water he used, and that also could have affected his results.

Another puzzlement I have about his method is that he didn't say how he mixed the soap batter -- whether by hand or with a stick blender or other device. Although carbonate saponification is slower than hydroxide saponification, using an efficient mixing device will reduce the time it takes to get to trace regardless of the lye used. Good mixing will also help control the foaming that will occur when using a carbonate lye solution -- it evolves carbon dioxide gas, which can foam up pretty strongly.

 

[lsg]

Recipe being the same, does one yield more lather than the other?

A recipe high in coconut and Castor along with some palm usually is more bubbly than one with olive oil. I make a recipe with 71% coconut, 22% Castor and 7% palm with a 5% superfat (lye discount) that works very well for me.

 

[ahutchins9]

I make a 100% OO LS and superfat at 3% I get a fairly clear soap diluting the paste at 1 part paste to 1 1/2 part distilled water. It dilutes to a thicker soap so I do not have to thicken it. I leave mine unfragranced so if you add EO/FO you might have to play with the dilution rate depending on how it affects the soap,

 

[IrishLass]

Thank you for clarifying, DeeAnna!

Originally Posted by Obsidian
The downside? not being able to use a decent SF so its generally drying and it has poor lather, at least this is my experience.

I see. Thanks for the feedback.

JayJay- don't be discouraged- as Obsidian made mention of, everyone's experiences are different, especially depending on formulas, skin-type, lather perceptions, etc... lsg's 75% coconut formula and experiences with it are a good example of that.

My own favorite glycerin liquid soap formula contains 35% coconut oil, along with 30% castor, 20% cocoa butter, and 5% shea butter, and I find it does quite well in the bubbly department without drying my skin.

I soap it with a 3% super-fat up front using SummerbeeMeadow's calculator, and then later during dilution I add meadowfoam seed oil and some stearic acid along with PS80 to bring the total super-fat up to 6%.

When all is said and done I'm left with an incredibly lovely, bubbly, creamy/oomphy, pearly/opaque soap that doesn't leave my hands feeling stripped or dry.

I should mention at this point that I only use my liquid soap sink-side for washing hands. I love showering/bathing with my bar soaps too much to ever want to switch over to liquid there.


IrishLass

 

[JayJay]

I will definitely try your recipe just as soon as I get the supplies. I have some KOH on its way. But I have not settled on a vendor for Poly80 or the SA.

Is there anothet good oil to sub for meadow foam seed oil?

I'm going to try some liquid castille unscented for my very first soap... Mainly because I won't have my other supplies when the KOH arrives. I can use it as a comparison to the process and finished soap made with more ingredients just as soon as I get them.

 

[Seawolfe]

I have to say, I use 100% coconut oil LS with 0.5% super fat at the kitchen sink for dishes and hands, and I don't find it too drying. It's not nearly as nice on my skin as my bar soap, but it doesn't leave me running for the moisturizer either. I have a mostly OO 3% sf by the bathroom sink made with glycerin and it's much nicer.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

I don'tt find it too drying either. I even think extra glycerine adds to conditioning.
I'm using 70% OO, 25% CO and 5% castor oil recipe. With 0-1% SF.
I had to go back to using "insert brand name" foamy soap for few days while I got time to make more. And my hands were red and raw by the 2nd day.