Let's talk about lard, baby

[Dawni]

Let's talk about you and me
Let's talk about all the good things and thr bad things that may be
Let's talk about s.... lard

So, almost since joining here and reading about it, I've been looking for where to buy lard and I've not been able to find any nearby. No rendered lard. I thought I'd do it myself (which makes me cringe coz I don't eat pork coz of the smell, so the thought of "cooking" that gives me pause), but no fat could be found as well.

My theory is, here, people don't cut off the fat and throw it. They eat it. Even the meat section in the supermarket didn't have any lying around, nor the the guy in the wet market. Third world issue? Lol

So imagine my excitement when I found someone selling it by the kilo online, and with cheap shipping too! So I went and ordered two. I know by now there's been multiple threads on lard, and I've read through a lot, but couldn't find the answer to one question.

How do I store my opened pack? Can I freeze my other unopened pack or it'll be fine out in the store room along with the rest of my soaping stuff? If I'm to freeze it, won't thawing be a problem in terms of consistency and the what nots when making soap batter?

But this thread is for all things lard, too. Love it or hate it? Never used it? Can't find it? Don't wanna use it at all? Want to try it?

For those who use it. Do you find that it works best in combination with any specific oil/s, or it just goes with it all? Has anyone noticed any difference in working with it in CP and HP?

Tips and tricks are welcome here as well. I know they've been mentioned in between other threads but we can make this a go to thread, yes? For beginners who are too lazy to search? Hahaha

 

[lenarenee]

I recommend coconut oil for bubbles, I like up to 25%, but use what your comfortable with. Tha

Those two oils make a nice bar.

I like to add 15 to 20 % high ole ice oil like olive, sunflower, safflower. It adds a nice shine to the bubbles, and is conditioning. Also a bit of castor. This is my go to recipe.

Heat the lard as slowly as you can, I even turn off the heat befor it’s all finished and let it finish on its own.
Lard works in cp and hp.

 

[dibbles]

I have frozen lard, and had no problems with it. I only did that when I was given a large quantity by a friend - like 30 lbs of it. I've never had a problem using it in the quantities I normally buy. But it's easy for me to go to Walmart and pick up 3-4 four lb buckets. In the earliest of my soap making days, I was pretty sure I didn't want to use it because, well...lard. But after I found this forum, with so many people in love with their lard soaps, I decided to give it a try. It is now one of my favorites. Not only is it incredibly easy to work with, the soaps are so nice to use. It traces much slower than palm, and I like the skin feel of it better as well. I think any combination of oils will work with lard - I always use some amount of coconut oil and the liquid oils vary. My recipes tend to be 30-45% lard, 20-25% coconut and then fill in the blanks with whatever else you like.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

I use lard and am very happy with the soap. a while back I dropped the coconut back a bit and added more lard--I just tried my first batch of that recipe and I am very pleased with it. it seemed to lather more

 

[Meena]

Haven't used lard, but I have used beef tallow. It wasn't cheap, so not sure i'll continue using it. It seems nice, though. Maybe I'll make friends with an organic meat butcher. Because toxins build up and store mostly in fat tissue, whether animal's or human's, and even though soap is a wash-off product, I'll not use anything but organic. In your country, agriculture may well still be clean, but not in USA... so all my animal products must be organic, period. The only organic lard I've seen in Denver is in an 11 oz jar by the same company who bottles the beef tallow for big $$$.

Besides all that, lard is fairly similar to my o/s palm, with some slight differences in fatty acids. You guys might notice that i key heavily on FA profiles when comparing one oil / fat with another.

Well, don't want to rain on your parade. I would do a 100% lard bar because of what i've read here, too, if I ever find organic lard that's not cost prohibitive. Just want to note that everything has traced slow for me, including palm and castor (and beef tallow). Not sure why. I do a fair amount of stick blending to get to light trace or even emulsion sometimes.
YAY, now if I just learned how to do pretty.

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

Here we use lard for cooking quite a few things, so it is readily available and super cheap. I really like it in soap HOWEVER i can smell the lard on the cured soaps and i can not deal with lard scent. I just cant (and no, i mot overhear it because that also causes it smell), sooo i will finish the lard i still have on hand and i’ll use a strong FO to go with it. Other than that i think is lovely in soap. All my first soaps contained lard and were very nice. I also liked the 100% lard soap i mean minus the scent. Give it a go, but do not over heat! I also cant stand the smell of pork cooking.

 

[Meena]

I also cant stand the smell of pork cooking.

No carnitas??!!!?

 

[cmzaha]

Here we use lard for cooking quite a few things, so it is readily available and super cheap. I really like it in soap HOWEVER i can smell the lard on the cured soaps and i can not deal with lard scent. I just cant (and no, i mot overhear it because that also causes it smell), sooo i will finish the lard i still have on hand and i’ll use a strong FO to go with it. Other than that i think is lovely in soap. All my first soaps contained lard and were very nice. I also liked the 100% lard soap i mean minus the scent. Give it a go, but do not over heat! I also cant stand the smell of pork cooking.

I am with you, I always smell a lardy smell when my soaps start older. I also very seldom go over 22% lard due to DOS issues with lard. It is also very cheap here, under $30 for 50 lbs. I like the feel of lard but just can't deal with the off smell when the soaps are older, and it is true that you do not want to overheat lard.

 

[SaltedFig]

I also don't like lard in soap. I don't like the smell of it fresh, I don't like the smell of lard soap and I REALLY don't like the smell of old lard soap (I reckon it stinks - there's no hiding that smell! ... neem and lard are my two "never use" fats).

It will store very well in the freezer - this doesn't affect the texture of the final soap.

It makes a good blend with beef tallow (these two animal fats work well together in soap), with the lard being about 1/4 of the amount of tallow in the recipe.

 

[lenarenee]

Haven't used lard, but I have used beef tallow. It wasn't cheap, so not sure i'll continue using it. It seems nice, though. Maybe I'll make friends with an organic meat butcher. Because toxins build up and store mostly in fat tissue, whether animal's or human's, and even though soap is a wash-off product, I'll not use anything but organic. In your country, agriculture may well still be clean, but not in USA... so all my animal products must be organic, period. The only organic lard I've seen in Denver is in an 11 oz jar by the same company who bottles the beef tallow for big $$$.

Well, don't want to rain on your parade. I would do a 100% lard bar because of what i've read here, too, if I ever find organic lard that's not cost prohibitive. Just want to note that everything has traced slow for me, including palm and castor (and beef tallow). Not sure why. I do a fair amount of stick blending to get to light trace or even emulsion sometimes.
YAY, now if I just learned how to do pretty. View attachment 35992

Ask you ye shall receive: https://www.etsy.com/shop/FannieAndFlo?ref=shop_sugg Love their quality and sense of humor!! Contact them, tell them you make soap and you'll take the less than perfect lard. Less than perfect is not lesser quality! In fact - a local baker prefers it for her baking. But the color might be less than white or something like that. I've never received anything from them that didn't make me swoon!

Now, do you have info on just what and how much is stored in the fat - because the liver and kidneys filters and disposes lots of stuff. I'd like to know why some is not sent to the bathroom and is stored in fat. Or...is it possible this is another partly true bit of info that the internet has blown up. I truly don't know.

Another thing: you know how we were told how clean vegetables and fruits were? That organic is better - but now we know that organic stuff is sprayed more than inorganic veggies?

The real kicker: you know how trees/vegetation/plants are good for the environment because they clean the air? Um....do you know where the "dirt" goes? It's stored in the plants. Not filtered....permanent. (Yummm….petroleum by-products in my salad today)

So pick your poison - fat or plants - we'll get it either way. However - at the moment I'm thinking it's better to rub it on your skin - because skin does NOT absorb everything, plus the size of the molecules also prohibits large molecules from entering.

Thoughts?

 

[SaltedFig]

Ask you ye shall receive: https://www.etsy.com/shop/FannieAndFlo?ref=shop_sugg Love their quality and sense of humor!!

Now, do you have info on just what and how much is stored in the fat - because the liver and kidneys filters and disposes lots of stuff. I'd like to know why some is not sent to the bathroom and is stored in fat. Or...is it possible this is another partly true bit of info that the internet has blown up. I truly don't know.

Another thing: you know how we were told how clean vegetables and fruits were? That organic is better - but now we know that organic stuff is sprayed more than inorganic veggies?

The real kicker: you know how trees/vegetation/plants are good for the environment because they clean the air? Um....do you know where the "dirt" goes? It's stored in the plants. Not filtered....permanent. (Yummm….petroleum by-products in my salad today)

So pick your poison - fat or plants - we'll get it either way. However - at the moment I'm thinking it's better to rub it on your skin - because skin does NOT absorb everything, plus the size of the molecules also prohibits large molecules from entering.

Thoughts?

Why are your organically grown foods sprayed more than your "inorganic vegetables"?
('scuse the phraseology - I'm sure you all get what I mean )

PS. The keyword you are looking for is "phytoremediation" ... there are some plants that are exceptional at extracting even heavy metals from soils ... and yes, these do end up in the plant. Not all plants do this to the same extent.

Here there is soil testing and large exclusions zones around organic farms, to counter possible contamination in the soil/plants.

 

[Meena]

Thoughts?

Thanks for the link!!!

You know, I dearly love you @lenarenee , and now i have homework to do because the fat/toxin explanation is not off the top of my head, and i KNOW you'll want a great answer.

stay tuned...

Thoughts?

From one of my favorite doctors, a local (Boulder, CO) Ayurvedic physician:

"We are all designed to continuously and naturally remove toxins from the body.

There are two kinds of toxins: water-soluble and fat-soluble.

Water-soluble toxins are easily flushed out of the body via the blood and kidneys, but the fat-soluble toxins are a challenge for the body to remove.

Fat-soluble toxins such as heavy metals, pesticides, preservatives, food additives, pollutants, plastics and other environmental chemicals must become water-soluble for the body to eliminate them fully.

This happens mostly in the liver, but if our digestive and detox pathways are not functioning optimally, these toxins find their way from the liver to the blood, fat cells, and brain, where they can store for years, setting you up for health concerns down the road. " ~ Dr John Douillard

I am not aware that organics are sprayed *more* -- have never heard that. But I do know that WHAT they are sprayed with cannot be toxic and is nothing like the chemicals used in conventional agriculture. And I use those grapefruit oil veggie washes religiously. And GMO veggies / legumes that are making their own pesticides are inside the plant and can't be removed by washing.

and ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3569688/

"On the basis of these studies, we propose that AT [edit - Adipose Tissue, or "fat"], in addition to its other metabolic and endocrine functions, has diverse toxicological functions: ..."

"Discussion: As a storage compartment for lipophilic POPs, AT (adipose tissue or fat) plays a critical role in the toxicokinetics of a variety of drugs and pollutants, in particular, POPs. By sequestering POPs, AT can protect other organs and tissues from POPs overload. However, this protective function could prove to be a threat in the long run. The accumulation of lipophilic POPs will increase total body burden. These accumulated POPs are slowly released into the bloodstream, and more so during weight loss. "

POPs = Persistent Organic Pollutants

Note: There are many definitions of "organic", such as "organic Chemistry" and POPs. Not the same as organic food, organic oil, etc. as I and your grocery store use the word.

(Whew - *wipes forehead* LOL)

 

[IrishLass]

I like to store my lard in the fridge, although I've frozen it just fine, too. My bucket says it'll be fine stored at room temp, but sometimes I go long stretches between soaping, so I refrigerate it to help keep it fresh longer. When I've frozen it, I've never thawed it out before soaping. I just chip off chunks of it until I have the amount I need and then melt it with my other fats.

I like to use lard in conjunction with beef tallow in my soap. They make a great combo because each has something the other lacks. The 2 of them together make for the perfect, hard soaping fat to me. Where lard is soft, tallow is harder...where tallow is cleansing, lard is more conditioning.....what lard lacks in bubbly lather, tallow makes up for it. I use more lard than tallow in my formula, roughly 2/3 lard to 1/3 tallow.

I love to cook with lard, too.....leaf lard, that is....not the partially hydrogenated lard that I use in my soap. It makes the best pie crusts. I buy my leaf lard from Fanny & Flo (the link Lenarenee provided).


IrishLass

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

No carnitas??!!!?

Oh god no. I cant stand the smell of carnitas and i will only eat them if I really REALLY have to, but i can be a very happy mexican without eating carnitas ever again.



Forgot: i keep my lard on the refrigerator. Sometimes i freeze it if i wont be using it in a long time.

 

[lenarenee]

Why are your organically grown foods sprayed more than your "inorganic vegetables"?
('scuse the phraseology - I'm sure you all get what I mean )

PS. The keyword you are looking for is "phytoremediation" ... there are some plants that are exceptional at extracting even heavy metals from soils ... and yes, these do end up in the plant. Not all plants do this to the same extent.

Here there is soil testing and large exclusions zones around organic farms, to counter possible contamination in the soil/plants.

It's long and complicated; my friend is a farmer and has been a good source of information and sometimes has some shocking things to tell. One of them is about triclosan use - the stuff in toothpaste and Dial soap, among other antibacterial products. It's an insecticide used in farming. He detailed the nasty effect it has - and I now read every toothpaste label I purchase!

In short; its about the source of the pesticides, fertilizers, or using ones with short half lives which disintegrate faster and the farmer applies more often because of it, and also about not following up on farming practices.

This is just a tidbit about organic farming in the US: its not the organic we wish it was. (although there are a few, albeit very rare farms are completely chemical free and use manure for fertilizers - but not enough to supply the masses; more specialized and sell at markets or a few restaurants)

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

ETA: phytoremediation - thanks for the vocab term! Didn't know it! I believe plants absorb pollutants through their leaves as well.....know anything about that? I'll see if I can find that biology book on my shelf

 

[lenarenee]

Thanks for the link!!!

You know, I dearly love you @lenarenee , and now i have homework to do because the fat/toxin explanation is not off the top of my head, and i KNOW you'll want a great answer.

stay tuned...

Oh I know its not off the top of your head; I've heard it too. And I was hoping you'd like to fill out the facts (because I'm too lazy to do all that digging right now).

And - see if you find what toxins and under what conditions they're stored in the fat instead of being sent out the bathroom like many things the kidneys and liver filter. That's a question I never thought of until this thread!

 

[SaltedFig]

It's long and complicated; my friend is a farmer and has been a good source of information and sometimes has some shocking things to tell. One of them is about triclosan use - the stuff in toothpaste and Dial soap, among other antibacterial products. It's an insecticide used in farming. He detailed the nasty effect it has - and I now read every toothpaste label I purchase!

In short; its about the source of the pesticides, fertilizers, or using ones with short half lives which disintegrate faster and the farmer applies more often because of it, and also about not following up on farming practices.

This is just a tidbit about organic farming in the US: its not the organic we wish it was. (although there are a few, albeit very rare farms are completely chemical free and use manure for fertilizers - but not enough to supply the masses; more specialized and sell at markets or a few restaurants)

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

ETA: phytoremediation - thanks for the vocab term! Didn't know it! I believe plants absorb pollutants through their leaves as well.....know anything about that? I'll see if I can find that biology book on my shelf

Well, I checked our lists here, and triclosan is not allowed on our certified organic crops, and rotenone (mentioned in your linked article as an allowed input in your organic farming ... although I do keep in mind the article is now 8 years old, so this may have changed) is expressly forbidden in our organic systems.

The organic farmers I know would be mortified to think that these products would be allowed in organic farming (it kind of defeats the purpose ).
Most of these practice crop rotation and use natural fertilizers (manures, composts etc.).

We also have Biodynamic certification, which is even more stringent in requirements.

"ETA: phytoremediation - thanks for the vocab term! Didn't know it! I believe plants absorb pollutants through their leaves as well.....know anything about that? I'll see if I can find that biology book on my shelf"

Welcome

Yes, they do absorb pollutants through their leaves as well - some of the planned roadside trees and grasses here are specifically used to uptake some of the road pollution & that does work.

Indoor plants are promoted in gardening shows (and some talk shows) here as a way of keeping the indoor air-quality up too. I think you do this too?
This might interested you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Clean_Air_Study

PS. The etsy website you recommended looks good! (The fats look very clean)

 

[Jill B Blasius]

Love lard in soap. My (elderly) neighbor asked me to make her some soap with lard in it a few years back, I thought she was weird. I did it and kept a bar. Eventually tried it a year later and it was lovely soap. Never noticed an odor and I have none now to smell. Will have to go over and ask her if I can smell her soap! I make her a batch about once per year.

Have been asking around (Costco, corner grocery chain) for beef fat to make tallow - and they think I'm weird. Found a local meat mkt. who would sell me suet at like $2/lb which I wasn't sure if I wanted that or just general beef fat? Wanted to make it not purchase pre-made online I would think tallow would smell too, no?

 

[SaltedFig]

Suet is the kidney fat, and if you are able to render it yourself, is the finest fat of all (it's higher in stearic acid - other body fats can be softer and have more oleic acid). Tallow does have a smell in soap, but it is not as pungent as Lard (IMHO). Mind you - I don't like tallow either (it was used for years in commercial soaps, before it was replaced with palm oil, so I associate the smell with those soaps ... but older folk here like the tallow soaps).

 

[Meena]

Oh I know its not off the top of your head; I've heard it too. And I was hoping you'd like to fill out the facts (because I'm too lazy to do all that digging right now).

And - see if you find what toxins and under what conditions they're stored in the fat instead of being sent out the bathroom like many things the kidneys and liver filter. That's a question I never thought of until this thread!

Eggs-celent, dahling.

Did you miss my reply? Because it's several posts above this one of yours...

(It didn't take me long. )