Learned so much already

[Nona'sFarm]

Hi, just joined this month and already I've learned so much from reading older threads. I plan to become a supporting member as soon as I can work it into my budget.
Some of the things I've learned:
*Can only superfat with a specific oil with hot process soaping (not CP)
*Hot process needs just as long a cure time or longer as CP; wow this was an eye opener!
*Other things occur during the curing process, not just water evaporation
*Can add honey to some of the water amount, then to the lye water and let soap go through gel. I have been adding it to my oils and then refridgerating to keep it from going through gel; from something else I read, I thought that was the best approach to keep soap from getting too hot.
*That this wonderful SoapCalc program exists.
*How to approximate the amount of soap batter.
*That one can make soap with brine (soleseife), that can be super cleansing. Can't wait to get to that on my project list. Hoping it may help my daughter with the acne on her back.

So exciting, I look forward to learning more and being in such a supportive soaping community.

 

[lsg]

If I were you, I wouldn't add honey to the lye water. You may get a chunk of solid honey on the bottom of the lye water container. You can heat the honey and add it to the oils or at trace. The Soaper's Friend is also a great lye calculator/program.

 

[cmzaha]

Solefeif soap is not necessarily super cleansing and you do not really want a high cleansing with acne. When acne is treated to harshly it can cause the oil glands to overreact producing even more oil possibly adding to clogging the pores. There has to be a balance of cleansing and till enough oil balance. So you want gentle cleansing and a well balanced Soleseif can do just that, with the salt brine helping many with skin issues.

 

[TheGecko]

*Can only superfat with a specific oil with hot process soaping (not CP)

Not sure where you are getting that because as I understand it, 'superfat' is just unsaponified oil/butter so you can add any oil/butter from your base recipe or any other oil/butter.

The difference between SF in CP and HP is that SF is added before saponification while in HP, the SF is added afterwards.

*Hot process needs just as long a cure time or longer as CP; wow this was an eye opener!

Not strictly true. Depending on the recipe used for CP, general 'cure' time is 4 to 6 weeks; I prefer 8 weeks myself. HP soap, because of the way it is processed, can be used once it has cooled down and hardened, but they are better for at least a 2 week 'cure' time.

*Can add honey to some of the water amount, then to the lye water and let soap go through gel. I have been adding it to my oils and then refridgerating to keep it from going through gel; from something else I read, I thought that was the best approach to keep soap from getting too hot.

Most folks I have seen use honey, thin it out using a tablespoon or so from the water for their lye solution and then adding it to either their lye solution or oils...personal preference. Depending on the amount of honey and the temperature of the room you are saponifying your soap in. I make Goat Milk Soap which has natural sugars in the milk; during summer it gets warm in garage and so I refrigerate my GMS. Now that the day temps are 60F and lower, I put my GMS in the garage.

 

[Dawni]

Not sure where you are getting that because as I understand it, 'superfat' is just unsaponified oil/butter so you can add any oil/butter from your base recipe or any other oil/butter.

The difference between SF in CP and HP is that SF is added before saponification while in HP, the SF is added afterwards.

I think what she meant is you can't choose a specific oil as superfat in CP because the lye won't leave that alone. It'll saponify what it wants and leave what it wants. The consensus is in HP, there's a higher chance that your chosen oil will be left as superfat but it's still not a surefire thing.

Not strictly true. Depending on the recipe used for CP, general 'cure' time is 4 to 6 weeks; I prefer 8 weeks myself. HP soap, because of the way it is processed, can be used once it has cooled down and hardened, but they are better for at least a 2 week 'cure' time.

Yes, not strictly.

2 weeks isn't enough for my HP soaps. They're a lot harder after at least 4, or sometimes 6. And that is me using less water than the usual 3:1 recommended for HP. I rarely CP but aside from the initial softness when unmolding, and the longer wait to unmold, they harden faster than HP which you can unmold in a few hours.

As for lather, a few recipes need more than 12 even. I cure a minimum 8 before using/giving/selling.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

If I were you, I wouldn't add honey to the lye water. You may get a chunk of solid honey on the bottom of the lye water container. You can heat the honey and add it to the oils or at trace. The Soaper's Friend is also a great lye calculator/program.

I haven't tried it yet, but the idea is to set aside a little of the liquid. Dissolve your lye in the remaining liquid; stir honey into warmed liquid that you at aside, stir that into the cooled lye water. See below.

"I used to add my honey to my oils years ago, but would get overheating when gelling, and I also would get honey spots leaking out of my soap..... until a fellow soaper showed me her trick in getting honey to behave......just dilute it a little and add it right into the lye water once it has cooled off. I gave it a try and have never looked back.

IrishLass

Depending on the recipe used for CP, general 'cure' time is 4 to 6 weeks; I prefer 8 weeks myself. HP soap, because of the way it is processed, can be used once it has cooled down and hardened, but they are better for at least a 2 week 'cure' time.

So, I am new to this and I did a search for "HP Cure Time," the general consensus was that though HP soap is safe to use the second day, it is not cured, that it takes just as long to cure as CP soap. Previously, I thought as you did based on some YouTube videos.

Solefeif soap is not necessarily super cleansing and you do not really want a high cleansing with acne. When acne is treated to harshly it can cause the oil glands to overreact producing even more oil possibly adding to clogging the pores. There has to be a balance of cleansing and till enough oil balance. So you want gentle cleansing and a well balanced Soleseif can do just that, with the salt brine helping many with skin issues.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I will aim for a balance.

 

[TheGecko]

So, I am new to this and I did a search for "HP Cure Time," the general consensus was that though HP soap is safe to use the second day, it is not cured, that it takes just as long to cure as CP soap. Previously, I thought as you did based on some YouTube videos.

NOT from YouTube:

"the biggest thing that sets the hp soap making method apart from the cold process soap is the cure time. Since hot process soap uses a heat source, like a crock pot or pan, that keeps the soap batter at higher temperatures. These higher temperatures will speed up the saponification process. So, your hot process soaps won’t need to cure as long as they would if they were made using the cp soap method."

and

"With cold process soap, the saponification process takes 24 to 36 hours to complete, with hot process, the saponification is done when the soap is done cooking. It may seem an odd addition of extra work, but there are a couple of benefits of hot process soap:

• Since you add fragrance and additives after the soap has cooked, they do not come in contact with the lye. This can be more gentle on fragile fragrance oils and can reduce the lye’s effect on botanicals like flower petals and lavender buds which turn brownish black when they contact the lye.
• The soap is ready to use sooner. The process cuts a day off of the saponification process and (depending on how much water you use in your recipe) can cut down on the cure time needed"

I need to head off to work, but will be happy to provide more sources; including where I got them from.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

TheGecko, thanks for your information. There seems to be a lot of differing information, guess I'll just have to continue to work through it. For now I will probably err on the side of caution and give my HP soap as long of a cure time as my CP. But thanks for sharing, there is much to learn. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

[Millie]

Hi and welcome! You really have learned a lot. We have big personalities and lots of opinions and sometimes we stumble on great revelations too Glad to have you here!

 

[Dawni]

I read those links too. And watched those videos. HP does cut down saponification time - when I'm done cooking my batter is already zap free. When I unmold after a few hours and cut it's already soap.

I also initially thought the quick cure time is added bonus to the rustic look I like lol but since found out it isn't always so.

I primarily make HP. I only make CP when I'm in the mood for a soleseife or a salt bar, with a few regular recipes here n there to try out a swirl. I have soap to compare.

Most HPers use more water than CPers because there is water loss while you cook. The resulting soap, if not cured as long as a CP soap, won't last as long in the shower and still might be slightly soft, even if it holds its shape.

Not to mention lather gets better, just like CP, after a longer cure. Soap gets milder too. Like CP.

Not saying you can't use it immediately. You can. Even a well balanced CP soap can be used within a week if you're so inclined because saponification without the heat takes only a couple of days. But both soaps won't be at their best.

 

[Kare Klein]

I'm curious about ambient temperature during cure for CP soaps? Is there an ideal temperature? What might be too hot or too cold? I ask because mine are curing in a cold basement right now...about 55-65 degrees F. TIA.

 

[dixiedragon]

Welcome to the forum! Glad you are enjoying it!

When I make honey soap, I put the honey in my oils, then I stick blend the pot of oils as I pour in the lye water, to keep the honey from separating out.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I'm curious about ambient temperature during cure for CP soaps? Is there an ideal temperature? What might be too hot or too cold? I ask because mine are curing in a cold basement right now...about 55-65 degrees F. TIA.

Kare, I would start a new thread on this - probably a discussion on its own.

 

[TheGecko]

I'm curious about ambient temperature during cure for CP soaps? Is there an ideal temperature? What might be too hot or too cold? I ask because mine are curing in a cold basement right now...about 55-65 degrees F. TIA.

I was putting my soaps in the garage. During the summer it worked really well because the 80+F allowed my soaps to gel without any additional heat and the heat helped with evaporation. But now the weather has changed and it's not only cold, but I'm in the Pacific Northwest and we get a LOT of rain during the winter. The cooler temp is great for my GMS because I don't have to refrigerate it, but my regular soap doesn't gel so I'm putting it in the oven. As for curing, my concern is less the temp and more of the damp as our humidity rises with all the rain. My husband just put together a shelving rack unit and I'll be using a fan.

 

[Megan]

Not sure where you are getting that because as I understand it, 'superfat' is just unsaponified oil/butter so you can add any oil/butter from your base recipe or any other oil/butter.

The difference between SF in CP and HP is that SF is added before saponification while in HP, the SF is added afterwards.

She means that you cannot choose which of your oils is going to provide the super fat as you can with HP.

NOT from YouTube:

"the biggest thing that sets the hp soap making method apart from the cold process soap is the cure time. Since hot process soap uses a heat source, like a crock pot or pan, that keeps the soap batter at higher temperatures. These higher temperatures will speed up the saponification process. So, your hot process soaps won’t need to cure as long as they would if they were made using the cp soap method."

and

"With cold process soap, the saponification process takes 24 to 36 hours to complete, with hot process, the saponification is done when the soap is done cooking. It may seem an odd addition of extra work, but there are a couple of benefits of hot process soap:

• Since you add fragrance and additives after the soap has cooked, they do not come in contact with the lye. This can be more gentle on fragile fragrance oils and can reduce the lye’s effect on botanicals like flower petals and lavender buds which turn brownish black when they contact the lye.
• The soap is ready to use sooner. The process cuts a day off of the saponification process and (depending on how much water you use in your recipe) can cut down on the cure time needed"

I need to head off to work, but will be happy to provide more sources; including where I got them from.

Saponification and cure are different things. It sounds like you may be confused (or your sources are) on this topic. DeeAnna has a wonderful blog post on the curing process that I would recommend reading. https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.asp

 

[Kare Klein]

Kare, I would start a new thread on this - probably a discussion on its own.

thank you

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hiya Nona's Farm and Welcome to SMF!
To save time, money, and frustration, this is a fun read for a soaper at your stage of experience (you might want to sit down with a cuppa tea or coffee).

Q: What advice would you give to your beginning soaping self?

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=62916

 

[dixiedragon]

I'm curious about ambient temperature during cure for CP soaps? Is there an ideal temperature? What might be too hot or too cold? I ask because mine are curing in a cold basement right now...about 55-65 degrees F. TIA.

IMO, a dry environment is more important than the temperature. My soap is fine long term (years) in the attic - it gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter. On the other hand, soap in the basement (cool, damp) gets DOS pretty bad.

 

[TheGecko]

She means that you cannot choose which of your oils is going to provide the super fat as you can with HP.



Saponification and cure are different things. It sounds like you may be confused (or your sources are) on this topic. DeeAnna has a wonderful blog post on the curing process that I would recommend reading. https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.asp

Not confused, I just copied in context.