Layer of white stuff at the bottom of my freshly diluted soap bottles

[Kyra]

I am finally out of my bastile soap (85% OO, 10% CO, 5% Castor) so I try to tweak my recipe in hopes of getting more bubbles. I go a bit lower on the OO, up the Castor, the CO, I introduce Soy and Canola oil into the formula (I don't have it on hand, but I shall post it later on if needed). My superfat is at 2%. I also change the FO I am using, sub-ing WSP's FO for Nature's Garden version of the same fragrance.

I suddenly get weird things happening: in one batch I got cloudy soap after adding the FO and the FO seems to float in a very thin layer on top (the soap being crystal clear after dilution) while in a second batch the soap stays clear but I find this on the bottom of my bottle the night after diluting my soap.


I never had problems with the WSP's oils, I tried quite a few fragrances that were left over from my CP soaping. This is the first time this happens and I am not sure what to think of it: is it the recipe? is it the FO? Who is the culprit? Any ideas?

 

[Susie]

Those are definitely solids that fell out of solution when you diluted. Possible causes are EVOO, soy, and maybe canola(I don't use it, so I can't rule it out).

This is not the end of the world, however. Pour all of it into one container and allow it to sequester for a week or so, then slowly/gently pour off the clear soap without disturbing the sediment at the bottom.

 

[Kyra]

Thank you Susie. I've done many batches of LS, but never used these oils before. In trying to figure this out, I looked and compared with other batches: it is not the OO, because I made a batch of pure castile from the same oil (100% OO) and didn't have that happen. It must be either the Soy or the Canola like you said - these are new additions in my formulas and this is the first time I see sediments. Maybe I should try a different brand for those two.

As for my cloudy batches (I never had LS going cloudy after using WSP Fragrance Oils, and I've used about 10 different fragrances - florals, fruity, spa like, etc.). These are my first batches using NG and I finally see the clouding I only read about up until now. One of the cloudy soap batches cleared by this morning, the other one stubbornly remained cloudy and doesn't seem to want to go back to the beautifully clear soap it was before the FO. Is there hope that time will work its wonder and restore its clarity? Or some FO simply do that to LS and there is nothing you ca do about it?

 

[Susie]

Why do you want to add those oils? What qualities are they bringing to the soap that you need? If you don't have valid reasons to use them...don't. I am not saying that you can't try different things, but have a good reason for using them. Also, remember to change one thing at the time with your soaps until you get good base recipes. It helps immediately identify what went wrong.

Some EOs and FOs cloud liquid soap. Period. Best thing to do is dilute a small amount and test each FO you want to use before committing a large batch to it. Time can also help clear lots of soaps. There are also sequestering agents you can use to help clear soap, ETOH(vodka), or a sugar solution are two that come to mind. However, I am not selling my soap, so having absolutely clear soap is not mandatory for me.

 

[Kyra]

I played with the soap calculator trying to get a much higher bubbly number while keeping my conditioning numbers a high as possible.

I make a dish soap (recipe posted by a big soaper on YouTube) with 50% Soybean, CO and OO and it is very, very rich in bubbles, it cleans very well and it is very mild for my hands (conditioning 58, bubbly 23, cleansing 23).

I might be totally wrong, but I somehow think that the soybean brings something to that great lather besides the CO, without the harshness of a 100% CO. I just love that soap. I wanted to see if the Soybean oil can do the same for my hand soap so I included it in my recipe. (Come to think of it, I just remembered my dish soap had a very thin layer of whitish powder on the bottom of the bottle, but nowhere near the amount in the soap I pictured. So it could be the canola? Hmm..)

And about canola... it's just a cheaper choice of highly conditioning oil, lots of Vit E, so I thought I'd give it a try in my LS.

Thanks for giving me hope about my cloudy soap

Why do you want to add those oils? What qualities are they bringing to the soap that you need? If you don't have valid reasons to use them...don't. I am not saying that you can't try different things, but have a good reason for using them. Also, remember to change one thing at the time with your soaps until you get good base recipes. It helps immediately identify what went wrong.

Some EOs and FOs cloud liquid soap. Period. Best thing to do is dilute a small amount and test each FO you want to use before committing a large batch to it. Time can also help clear lots of soaps. There are also sequestering agents you can use to help clear soap, ETOH(vodka), or a sugar solution are two that come to mind. However, I am not selling my soap, so having absolutely clear soap is not mandatory for me.

 

[Susie]

I have not found the numbers on SoapCalc to be true of liquid soaps. They are better at predicting the outcome of bar soaps, but not so much on liquid soaps.

I use the SBM calculators for liquid soaps as I find the water ratios make the pastes easier to work with.

 

[Kyra]

Hmm... So when trying to come up with a new recipe, those numbers do not even come close to the outcome or they are right about there, in that neighborhood at least? How do we make custom formulations and how do we judge a LS? All my playing on the soap calculators doesn't amount to anything? LOOOL

I just diluted another small batch done with the same oils, the same recipe. No sediments, nothing, perfect soap. I am starting to think my FO have something to do with these crazy outcomes.

I have four small batches under observation now, all done with the same recipe, same brands of oils, cooked the same amount of time.

1. The first had clear soap all throughout, but had a lot sediments on the bottom (the one I posted a pic of)
2. The second one was clear when first diluted, went cloudy after adding the FO, after a night I could see a very thin layer of sediments, stayed cloudy.
3. The third was clear when first diluted, went cloudy after adding the FO, cleared up over night, but had a very thin layer of white something on top (looked like FO or some kind of oil). I managed to skim almost all of it. No sediments on the bottom.
4. The fourth was clear when diluted, stayed clear after adding the FO, no sediments, nothing floating.

:roll: :think: Now I am really confused. I am going to try a fifth small batch and fragrance it with a WSP fragrance I used before in LS to see if this new recipe is making the FO behave the way they do.

I have not found the numbers on SoapCalc to be true of liquid soaps. They are better at predicting the outcome of bar soaps, but not so much on liquid soaps.

I use the SBM calculators for liquid soaps as I find the water ratios make the pastes easier to work with.