Lard V no Lard

[MickeyRat]

Another thumbs up for lard. It's readily available here and cheap. The only time I had trouble with smell was when I messed up and used a catch tray that was propping the over door open a fraction of a inch when I CPOPed the soap. Then it would smell in the morning when I cut it but, the smell would go away after a couple weeks cure. After I caught my mistake, no smell. I only started soaping last March and I did use lard. I still have one bar from my ill-fated first batch. The soap was good but, the scent was non-existent and it looked really sloppy. It's coming up on a year and not smelling.

I've started subbing lard whenever I find a recipe with palm oil (recalc the lye) which isn't available or cheap here. So far, that's going well.

Thanks for the advice on the GV shortening, I'll give it a try!

 

[cmzaha]

My first batch of soap (now 6.5 years old) still smells like lemongrass with nary a hint of rancidity. I made it without tetrasodium EDTA (because I had soft water), and now I use tetrasodium EDTA because I have hard water and my batch made July 2017 still has no hint of rancidity. I use Armour lard, since it is so much cheaper than any other brand. I don't know why Carolyn is having soaps go rancid, but mine does not.

Farmer John Manteca was the worst in my testing with Armour second. To find and purchase the 8 lbs buckets is not cost effective and I do okay with the Smart and Final 50 lb of Lard shortening as long as I add in extra BHT. This is as long as I add in a titch of bht edta and do no go over 25% splitting with tallow. I am beginning to think maybe I need to keep all soaps wrapped after their 2-3 month cure, at least the lard ones. I cut off the end of the 5 yr old soap I have here re-wrapped it and see what it does, since 3/4 of the bar still smell just like the fragrance albeit a little lighter in scent.

 

[Rune]

I'm late to the party here, but I got in touch with Mills, the manufacturerer of "Flott" in Norway, because I could not get my hands on "Smult" (aka Lard/ pigs tallow) or the cheap coconut oil "Delfiafett". These fats and oils are only available around x-mas here. "Flott" on the other hand is always there in my shop. Mills said the composition of the "Flott" is a secret, but it is mostly shea fat, coconut oil and canola oil, with some cured canola oil mixed in. I got some help from my son, who is a chemist, to break this down in order to calulate the proper amount of lye. There are two choises you can make in the calculator to get the saturated/unsaturated ballance right. Say you use 50% "Flott". Then split this ammount into 50% coconut oil, 35% shea butter and 15% canola oil. You can also enter Saw Palmetto Oil as a stand-in for "Flott", just remember to deduct some points from "clensing", and add some points for "conditioning". That said, next x-mas I'm going to stock up on lard/ pigs tallow. It makes the best soap ever in combo with coconut oil, ghee, almond oil and castor oil.

Hi! I did not see your answer before now. I did mail Mills and got a fatty acid profile for Flott Matfett. After a lot of experimenting in Soapcalc to get it right, I got it almost spot on right, but not 100%, and got a NaoH sap. value of 0,142. Same as palm oil.

I can't remember which combination I used to get it close, but I had to add some pure fatty acids. Because it would not be 100% whatever I did.

Anyway, the ingredients in Flott Matfett can not be 50% coconut, 35% shea and 15% canola, because shea is the first listed, so it has to be more shea than the others. Mills said it was listed in falling order.

Here is the fatty acid profile I got from Mills for Flott Matfett.

Laurin C12 13 %

Myristin C14 5 %

Palmitin C16 8 %

Stearin C18 29 %

Olein C18:1 33 %

Linol C18:2 5 %

Linolen C18:3 0,5 %

I used this plus the ratio of saturated/unsaturated. I came so close that I think it is safe to soap Flott Matfett as palm oil. The numbers for cleansing, hardness, longevity etc will of course not be correct by choosing palm oil in Soapcalc (which I don't use anymore). I use Seifenrechner from Handmade by Katrin, where I can calculate with dual lye and add acids:
http://www.handmade-by-kathrin.de/soap/calc/

If you haven't tried dual lye, you should. It really boosts bubbles! It has been ages since I made soap last, but for my two most recent, I used dual lye. And I will never go back to only Naoh, ever! It works that well, I promise. Around 5% KoH and 95% NaoH, that is enough. You can't just replace 5% with KoH, but have to do some maths, or use a lye calculator that does the maths for you.

Dual lye must be perfect for those who try to reduce the amount of coconut oil in a recipe, but still wants enough bubbles.

 

[MickeyRat]

If you haven't tried dual lye, you should. It really boosts bubbles! It has been ages since I made soap last, but for my two most recent, I used dual lye. And I will never go back to only Naoh, ever! It works that well, I promise. Around 5% KoH and 95% NaoH, that is enough. You can't just replace 5% with KoH, but have to do some maths, or use a lye calculator that does the maths for you.

Dual lye must be perfect for those who try to reduce the amount of coconut oil in a recipe, but still wants enough bubbles.

This is veering off topic but,. very interesting. Soapee http://soapee.com/calculator can do dual lye. The only thing I've used it for is shaving soap but. I will give this a try.

 

[SaltedFig]

Soapmaking Friend (the online calculator developed by the SMF owners and community) also handles dual lye
(it also has the ability to handle masterbatched dual lye, which is a feature I think is unique to the SMF calculator)

Soapmaking Friend URL: https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/

 

[Rune]

I tested Soapmaking Friend just now. I really like it! I especially like that you can add both citric acid and vinegar. I like the expand feature under the oils.

What I don't like is that you have to choose 5% vinegar. I use 35% vinegar essence (use or use, well I tried using vinegar first today). I have used a German calculator lately, and it is the opposite there, you have to choose pure acetic acid. 25 grams vinegar essence is close to 9 grams acetic acid. It is quite easy to calculate pure acetic acid from a vinegar, regardless of strength. 35% vinegar is nice, because the amount needed is so small that I don't have to discount the water or anything. When I have to choose 5% vinegar, I have to do some maths to calculate 35% over to 5%. I'm sure it's not difficult or anything. Or buy a 5% vinegar, which is pointless since I have access to stronger. I can of course dillute mine, but.

In Sweden, they have 12% as standard. They must also do their maths. I'm sure they have all sorts of standard strength on vinegar around the world. Ideally, it should be a system where the strengh and the amount of your vinegar can be put in, for computers to do the maths. They are good at it, better than people. Less mistakes can happen in soaping kitchens around the world.

Soapmaking Friend seems really, really good! It clearly shows that it is made by soapmakers. So much to like about it. Thumbs up!

 

[SaltedFig]

I agree with you on the vinegar - here we have a standard (off the shelf vinegars) at 4% and 6% - I haven't found a 5% one yet (mind you, I haven't looked that hard ).

Your post would be excellent feedback in the Soapmaking Friend forum (where it has a chance to be included in a program update)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/forums/soapmakingfriend-com-support-forum.50/

 

[Atihcnoc]

Does lard go rancid in the soap?

I still have the first soaps that I made with lard in 2010, at that moment I did not use any additives as I have not idea about "chelating agents" for hard water, my poor husband always complained that with my soaps, the shower was always left with a mark.
The SF for those soaps was 8% and 10% and they are in perfect condition, they don't have the smell of pork, they don't have DOS and they are not rancid.
I realized that not only the soaps that I made with lard are in perfect condition, but also all the soaps that I kept as a reminder that they were the first soaps with which I ventured to use different oils and fats coming out of my comfort zone, the soaps do not have any type of antioxidants and they are still in perfect condition.

 

[Trinbago27]

I know i am late to the party, but I tried soaping with lard yesterday and I was amazed at the slow trace and the creaminess! Obviously I have not tried the soap yet, but I was so impressed already, that I just know the soap will be great. I did not have any odor with my Armour lard...I melted it with lye water and it worked great. Thanks to everyone that suggested it in this forum!