Jumping off from Zany's 'No Slime Castille' to Bastille varieties

[Meena]

So, since Zany's original thread has been closed, I thought about starting this one to discuss what some of us have done to her recipe. This can include non-bastille's where you used the faux seawater.

I think it might be fun and also instructive to see how we have picked apart or even cherry-picked a portion or portions of Zany's original recipe, and tell about our satisfaction/dissatisfaction/surprises, or what have you.

I will start us off. The last soap I made, on March 3, I called "Faux Seawater very modified Bastille" and it was CPOPed in individual silicone molds. It was 21 oz of oils, 29.5% lye concentration, and had 1 TBSP sea salt and 1 TBSP organic bicarbonate of soda in 4 oz. of the lye water. I also put 2 tsp. organic sugar in the lye water I reserved -- about 2.8 oz. so the sugar didn't burn. I need a secretary to take notes as I soap because I'm now realizing that I didn't write down when I intended to add the sugar water!! My memory is still not good for many things -- so sorry. I probably added the sugar water to the oil and lye water mixture. I say that because this was CP, not hot process, where I would have added it during cook.

Anyway, the sugar was supposed to be for more bubbles, since this was my first -0- coconut oil recipe! How very brave of me! I wanted a Cleansing # of -0- on SoapCalc, even though this is not technically true; but the Lauric & Myristic were both -0-. This soap at 20 days has a thin but very silky lather with few bubbles. This is the second time I've used both sugar and salt and am not impressed ... or I'm not getting the proportions right. Needs more research, or maybe someone can just chime in about that? It's super nice on my face, though. Can't wait to try it in the shower, but I'm guessing it will melt away too fast right now, so I will wait another 2 or 3 weeks for that.

It's also still softer than any of the others were except my 'meat soap' at 3 weeks, and that one was a deliberate soft experiment. I haven't come up with an explanation of why the sea water plus SA didn't harden these bars yet. Any ideas? Maybe I can't expect salt or stearic acid to overcome a sat:unsat ratio of 31:69?

My SF was set at 2%, but since I didn't end up putting any fragrance, the oils were -0.66 oz. so SF was barely over 1%.

Here is where I posted their photos --> https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...ave-you-done-today.42556/page-536#post-754761

Here is my recipe:

 

[Meena]

bump

 

[Meena]

A thread whose time has Not come...

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Well, you're expecting a lot, especially on the weekend. I was surprised when you bumped it after such a small space of time, to be honest.

Wait for during the week when people are more active on here. You'll see some posts coming in.

Or maybe people are just a bit wary of posting on a thread which has that Castile in the topic......

 

[Meena]

Well, you're expecting a lot, especially on the weekend. I was surprised when you bumped it after such a small space of time, to be honest.

Hello ~ I bumped because I posted the thread around midnight and it wasn't showing on either of the posts lists when I got up, so I figured that no one would even know it was there. Didn't mean to be rude or pushy.

I'm with you on thinking that castille/bastille just isn't a topic of great interest right now, like a month or two ago.

 

[Dean]

Good thread. Will jump later Meena.

 

[earlene]

You added Sodium Acetate? SA means Sodium Acetate to me, which I get from mixing vinegar with lye (specific calculations, of course). Or is that SA a typo or does it mean something else to you?

If you did indeed include sodium acetate in your calculations, at what percent? I find it does harden soap quite nicely.

OOOOOPS, I re-read your recipe. SA means Stearic Acid in this situation. Yes, I would have expected it to harden the soap more a bit sooner.

How often have you used stearic acid in a high oleic recipe before and how did they turn out compared to this one?

Also your Fragrance Oils have no real impact on the SF of the soap, so leaving it out doesn't change the SF. In any case, I wouldn't worry about a low SF being an issue. Lye is never 100% pure anyway and unless your scale and your method leads to totally accurate weights, it's more likely you end up with a higher SF than accounted for in the first place. Probably not by a lot, but enough to give you some latitude.

 

[Meena]

Yes, stearic acid I'm new to using it. It has only been in my last 2 soaps, which had nearly identical Oleics -- 50 and 51. Ironically, they also are both 31:69 sat:unsat and both firming up the most slowly.

Good to know about FO viz. SF.

 

[Dean]

Ok @Meena...I’m jumping now. Hopefully I won’t fall and break a hip.

My zeawater recipie was 80 almond oil, 15 CB, 5 castor. It came out the cavitiy mold incredibly hard and shiny without any breakage of the corners. For hardness and unmolding, zeawater performed better than both SL and sea salt.

At 9 wks old my bar is producing surprisingly good lather but less than 10 CO. Noticeably better lather than at 6 weeks.

Now the downside. It makes oleic gel...esp in shower where it gets very soft. The bar was soft after more than 24 hours without use.

I also used zeawater in my stnd recipie. When I beveled the bars (with my deluxe edger) it was so hard it crumbled instead of “peeling.”

I did the math on Zeawater yesterday. At 2:1 water/lye...its nearly 1 tsp each salt and baking soda PPO. Thats the stnd recommended amt for salt alone to harden. However, it appears the soda is bringing something to the table in terms of hardness and unmolding that has not been explored.

A search of SMF and google returned only info on soap with large amts of soda like a soda version of salt bars. The online info reported that soda in large amts had a neg impact on soap.

Conclusion...adl research is necessary to determine how small amts of soda impacts soap.

I’m making my stnd recipie tomorrow with Zeawater for hardening, shine and clean unmolding. I will report back to ground control.

 

[Meena]

I haven't gone over 51 on Oleics and so far haven't gotten any slime/snot/oleic gel. Some folks have gotten slime with Zany's recipe, whereas she made it for years and didn't. Soaping can be pretty mysterious, it seems.

 

[newbie]

Zany's No Slime thread isn't closed. It's hasn't been commented on in a bit, as is the way with posts, but it was not ever closed. That said, I haven't tried any variations so I don't have anything tell anyone about, sad as it is.

 

[Meena]

It's not? Several people have said so, and Zany confirmed. ... Unless it has been reopened, idk.

 

[Dawni]

It's not? Several people have said so, and Zany confirmed. ... Unless it has been reopened, idk.

Weird.. Someone else's post went missing for a couple of days then reappeared. Maybe a glitch?

I have to organize my thoughts before I can post properly. There's been a lot I mentioned in the other thread and I need to consolidate them.

 

[earlene]

It looks like Zany's thread has been unlocked. It was locked for at least a week or so, as discussed in this thread:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/you-have-insufficient-privileges-to-reply-here.74272/

But in seeing the above comments, I went and checked and it looks like I can reply now, but I have not as I have never made this recipe in the first place. I think it's good that the comments of actual participants in making and evaluating their results of this recipe can now be included in the original thread. Just from the standpoint of continuity. But for the OP of this thread, I do understand why the new thread, as well and one of these days may try Zany's zeawater method and look forward to sharing my experience if appropriate.

Here is a link to Zany's original thread as I did not see it linked in the OP and some may want to refer to it:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/

 

[Dean]

Ok @Meena...I’m jumping now. Hopefully I won’t fall and break a hip.

My zeawater recipie was 80 almond oil, 15 CB, 5 castor. It came out the cavitiy mold incredibly hard and shiny without any breakage of the corners. For hardness and unmolding, zeawater performed better than both SL and sea salt.

At 9 wks old my bar is producing surprisingly good lather but less than 10 CO. Noticeably better lather than at 6 weeks.

Now the downside. It makes oleic gel...esp in shower where it gets very soft. The bar was soft after more than 24 hours without use.

I also used zeawater in my stnd recipie. When I beveled the bars (with my deluxe edger) it was so hard it crumbled instead of “peeling.”

I did the math on Zeawater yesterday. At 2:1 water/lye...its nearly 1 tsp each salt and baking soda PPO. Thats the stnd recommended amt for salt alone to harden. However, it appears the soda is bringing something to the table in terms of hardness and unmolding that has not been explored.

A search of SMF and google returned only info on soap with large amts of soda like a soda version of salt bars. The online info reported that soda in large amts had a neg impact on soap.

Conclusion...adl research is necessary to determine how small amts of soda impacts soap.

I’m making my stnd recipie tomorrow with Zeawater for hardening, shine and clean unmolding. I will report back to ground control.

Unmolded my soaps. No shine this time. They stuck worse than ever. Ruined two of four by breaking the corners.

Prior to pouring I swabbed the corners with AO. That was a mistake. Just read that veg oils react with lye making sticking worse and to use mineral oil only. Hope someone learns from my mistake.

The bars didn’t just stick to the corners though where I oiled it, the sides stuck too, leaving a soap film/layer all over the mold.

Color came out chalky.

 

[Meena]

Oh dear! I was gonna ask how they came out. Was it a wood mould with freezer paper, or a silicone mould?
Do you know why you are getting sticking? Have you tried leaving them in the mould(s) longer?

Buck up, friend. This has been a weird week for soaping for more than a few folks.

 

[earlene]

Unmolded my soaps. No shine this time. They stuck worse than ever. Ruined two of four by breaking the corners.

Prior to pouring I swabbed the corners with AO. That was a mistake. Just read that veg oils react with lye making sticking worse and to use mineral oil only. Hope someone learns from my mistake.

The bars didn’t just stick to the corners though where I oiled it, the sides stuck too, leaving a soap film/layer all over the mold.

Color came out chalky.

I also use lanolin, which works very well and also Vaseline as a mold release agent. Thought I'd mention these for those times when you find you don't happen to have mineral oil on hand.

 

[Dean]

Oh dear! I was gonna ask how they came out. Was it a wood mould with freezer paper, or a silicone mould?
Do you know why you are getting sticking? Have you tried leaving them in the mould(s) longer?

Buck up, friend. This has been a weird week for soaping for more than a few folks.

Silicone.

Don’t know y it suck other than the swabbing the corners with AO. It was the same recpie as the last time I used zeawater except these were colored and scented.

A day is usually enough. They were very hard.

I don’t think the sticking had anything to do with zeawater. The bars unmolded great last two times I used it.

 

[Teresa408]

I’ve been adding 2 tablespoons of sea salt, a teaspoon of soda and a teaspoon of sugar (most recent 2 batches increased to 4 tsp). This is all for a 2 lb. loaf. Things have been hardening up for unmolding in 24 hours or less, even a 90/10 olive/coconut oil that I made last month. It should be ready to test, I will report tomorrow.

The one in the picture was unmolded and cut 18 or 20 hours after pouring. I covered with a box and towel but did not add heat to force gel. It crumbled at the bottom as I sliced all the way through the loaf. Did I wait too long to cut it?

 

[SaltedFig]

I’ve been adding 2 tablespoons of sea salt, a teaspoon of soda and a teaspoon of sugar (most recent 2 batches increased to 4 tsp). This is all for a 2 lb. loaf. Things have been hardening up for unmolding in 24 hours or less, even a 90/10 olive/coconut oil that I made last month. It should be ready to test, I will report tomorrow.

The one in the picture was unmolded and cut 18 or 20 hours after pouring. I covered with a box and towel but did not add heat to force gel. It crumbled at the bottom as I sliced all the way through the loaf. Did I wait too long to cut it?

That's a shame it crumbled - your soap design is really pretty!

Crumbling like that can happen with soap that has been left a little long, and sometimes happens just because the blade is wedging open the cut and the soap breaks at the bottom - I don't think the crinkle cutters are particularly wedge-shaped, so I'd say it was left a little long, just like you thought. Sometimes adding a tiny bit of water to the blade can lubricate it, just enough to avoid crumbling [it stops the blades "catching" on the soap] - it looks like you weren't too far from getting right through, so maybe if you see this on a bar again, you might be able to use a little water to try and get through the others