Jumping into business too soon
- Thread starter funastrum
- Start date
Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
The Four Stages of Competence again. In my experience elsewhere, those who protest their own competence the most are in the first stage. Then there's a quiet phase where they being to accept the vastness of what they don't know, and absorb some learning. 
Last edited:
wetshavingproducts
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 245
- Reaction score
- 145
Unfortunately, this is just a part of operating any sort of business. The only difference is that most other businesses have a higher bar to entry. Ie, retail requires retail space and a large investment of inventory. Manufacturing requires a factory and workers. Soap requires a kitchen, labor, and a few pounds of ingredients to start off with.
I'm not trying to give you any hate, just my opinion. Only you know your level of competence - and if it's there - go for it. I do believe sometimes you have to run before you can walk - it's a great learning experience. But I don't think anyone is "hating" on you here. But, some of us haven't just been around the block, we're part of the pavement by now
Truly, once you've been at this for awhile, it is entirely possible that you will come to understand our hesitancy to support going into business when someone comes along who made their first batch LAST WEEK and is already setting up shop.
But, honestly, no hate intended.
I disagree that it is "most" other businesses, because I think that any business or industry at all will have its share of people who don't possess the level of expertise they self-assess to have. They may or may not be on a learning curve to correct that, but as it has been forever: Caveat Emptor
Not at the earliest stage. Unconcious incompetence = not being aware of the lack of expertise, believing all is known, and skills are at suitable levels.
Some things are predictable in that they are said many times in many places, in similar situations. "some are afraid" to hear from experience, and "some have quit" as if people don't come and go all the time = to me.....bluster. Yes, some people won't take advice. Yes, some experienced people at [whatever] will be frustrated by newcomers with more confidence than anything, and won't always be sweet and gentle. Sure, some people drop out, which is true in pretty much any group of people, since time immemorial.
Eventually, the best of the beginners accept that they can learn from others and quit reinventing the wheel or overestimating their own abilities, as they begin to approach their subject with true craftsman's humility and openness to real learning.
No one is hating on folks. They ARE expressing with various degrees of subtlety (
)their shared opinion that a few weeks of CP or HP soap experience is not enough to consider oneself experienced enough to sell to the public, and that many such vendors have a lot to learn.
I'm at the Conscious Incompetence stage. I've been lucky enough to have my first batches turn into really good soap that people enjoy, but I need to experience more failures and challenges as well as many more successes before I'm ready to even think of selling. If I had more time to devote to it, I know I could get there faster. I can't compare my timeline to someone who has been living and breathing soap for months. If someone can truly understand in a shorter period of time all that contributes to making good and bad soap, has experience with both, can make good soap consistently and is following all the rules and regulations; then I don't see a problem with them giving selling a try. The person who has only made one back and that was 4 days ago, that's insane.
"Unconcious incompetence" = happiest people in the world
lol, or the most offended, depending what you're telling them
I gave up worring about newbies a long time ago. They soon learn markets can be brutal work, such as doing two in one day in 106 degree weather and then heading out the next day. This is after getting home late wrapping up and labeling products to take out the next day. It just makes me keep my brain working to have more and better products. I take 40-50 different soap to each market. It is hard enough to load and unload that much soap and that is only some of the products. I find most new seller to stay more than 6 months
A month or so ago I had a customer drill me with all sorts of questions, fatty acids, procedure, etc and I was able to answer all questions. He was most suprised and I asked him why it suprised him I could answer the questions and he informed he had done the same up the street with the others. Sold him soap and he has been back for more. So they snared me another customer!!
A month or so ago I had a customer drill me with all sorts of questions, fatty acids, procedure, etc and I was able to answer all questions. He was most suprised and I asked him why it suprised him I could answer the questions and he informed he had done the same up the street with the others. Sold him soap and he has been back for more. So they snared me another customer!!
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 15,092
- Reaction score
- 6,768
Carolyn at least you know with the loading and unloading of that much soap you have done your weight lifting workout for the day. Now, that can't be a bad thing 
. I suppose we can say lugging around soap is building our muscles.
. I suppose we can say lugging around soap is building our muscles.Dorymae
Well-Known Member
Omg Relle when I read "lugging around soap" I got this mental picture of carrying boxes of soap door to door!! I guess we can all be thankful that the markets exist!
funastrum -
I definitely understand your feelings because I have seen a lot of what I call sarcastically “make soap today/sell tomorrow” mentality. Please try not to let it get to you. There’s nothing you can do and people like this don’t want to hear anything that is opposed to what they want. I have been trying to ignore some activity on the forum but couldn’t restrain myself any longer.
Now I’ll apologize in advance for getting off topic but after reading this thread, I wanted to vent a little, too.
To both of you, well said.
I’m sorry you feel we’re hateful on this forum. I know what I write can sound mean but I don’t intend it that way. Mostly I don’t intend it – there have been some deceptive posts and I have commented on them. I also don’t like people assuming I’m too stupid to catch inconsistencies or evasiveness in their comments. These are generally what make me start to wonder about someone and decide to do some checking.
Also, everyone can go back and view another member’s posts in chronological order. With enough posts, it’s very easy to spot which members are here only to pick other people’s brains so they can get immediate answers and don’t have to do all the boring research to find answers. I don’t have any patience with people like this and I won’t answer their questions. It's also easy to see when people first start and say they just want to learn. Then see the "I'm selling" posts within a few days to a few weeks. I hope people who have joined this forum with a sincere desire to learn, develop their skills and create the best product aren’t afraid to ask questions.
As for people quitting the forum because we’re hateful, well…this forum serves different needs for different people at different times. I have seen people quit the forum for an extended period of time and then return. If they don’t return, I hope they find another forum which is more congenial to them. I’ve seen this occur before - when a member “flounces” from the forum, it’s always because of the mean and hateful members. The person isn’t getting the responses she or he wants to hear. It’s a situation where the person gets what she needs, not what she wants; therefore the other members are haters or jealous, etc. The person never realizes she was given excellent advice because it is the opposite of this person’s viewpoint. People aren’t driven away; they drive themselves away by ignoring help and advice. This is an incredibly supportive forum if people are willing to check their egos and be receptive to guidance. It’s frustrating to many members to see people join and within a few weeks are making soap and selling it.
And yes, we’re always going to be learning new things no matter how many years experience we have. But please give us some credit that we know the basics and these do not change. We are able to recognize that someone isn’t ready to sell when the person doesn’t even know basic information about oil properties.
In order not to sound mean, I deleted almost everything I wrote in reply to the above comment. MP isn’t the same as CP. Three weeks (or possibly 7-8 weeks giving you the benefit) also isn’t enough time to know how your soap will be over time.
I’m sorry but I have to reply to this one. The worst you can do is probably make someone peel? How about ensuring your soap isn’t harmful to someone before you sell it? Disclaimer – I’m not writing this to ridicule. I’m just utterly flabbergasted by this comment.
I definitely understand your feelings because I have seen a lot of what I call sarcastically “make soap today/sell tomorrow” mentality. Please try not to let it get to you. There’s nothing you can do and people like this don’t want to hear anything that is opposed to what they want. I have been trying to ignore some activity on the forum but couldn’t restrain myself any longer.
Now I’ll apologize in advance for getting off topic but after reading this thread, I wanted to vent a little, too.
To both of you, well said.
I’m sorry you feel we’re hateful on this forum. I know what I write can sound mean but I don’t intend it that way. Mostly I don’t intend it – there have been some deceptive posts and I have commented on them. I also don’t like people assuming I’m too stupid to catch inconsistencies or evasiveness in their comments. These are generally what make me start to wonder about someone and decide to do some checking.
Also, everyone can go back and view another member’s posts in chronological order. With enough posts, it’s very easy to spot which members are here only to pick other people’s brains so they can get immediate answers and don’t have to do all the boring research to find answers. I don’t have any patience with people like this and I won’t answer their questions. It's also easy to see when people first start and say they just want to learn. Then see the "I'm selling" posts within a few days to a few weeks. I hope people who have joined this forum with a sincere desire to learn, develop their skills and create the best product aren’t afraid to ask questions.
As for people quitting the forum because we’re hateful, well…this forum serves different needs for different people at different times. I have seen people quit the forum for an extended period of time and then return. If they don’t return, I hope they find another forum which is more congenial to them. I’ve seen this occur before - when a member “flounces” from the forum, it’s always because of the mean and hateful members. The person isn’t getting the responses she or he wants to hear. It’s a situation where the person gets what she needs, not what she wants; therefore the other members are haters or jealous, etc. The person never realizes she was given excellent advice because it is the opposite of this person’s viewpoint. People aren’t driven away; they drive themselves away by ignoring help and advice. This is an incredibly supportive forum if people are willing to check their egos and be receptive to guidance. It’s frustrating to many members to see people join and within a few weeks are making soap and selling it.
And yes, we’re always going to be learning new things no matter how many years experience we have. But please give us some credit that we know the basics and these do not change. We are able to recognize that someone isn’t ready to sell when the person doesn’t even know basic information about oil properties.
In order not to sound mean, I deleted almost everything I wrote in reply to the above comment. MP isn’t the same as CP. Three weeks (or possibly 7-8 weeks giving you the benefit) also isn’t enough time to know how your soap will be over time.
I’m sorry but I have to reply to this one. The worst you can do is probably make someone peel? How about ensuring your soap isn’t harmful to someone before you sell it? Disclaimer – I’m not writing this to ridicule. I’m just utterly flabbergasted by this comment.
Hazel- if I could give you 50 likes for that post, it still would not be enough!
rogue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2014
- Messages
- 100
- Reaction score
- 40
Wow, I'm like 6 months ish into my 9-12 month plan & I'm still anxious about: getting things right, is this bar good enough to sell, the cut is a little wonky on these bars in my trey moulds. Licensing was the easy part. I do skin care also for friends thus far so I have microbiology testing that's gotta get done before I launch. I was just playing with soap calc for the first few WEEKS forget about selling anything.
A little neurosis & OCD is a good thing sometime I think now.
A little neurosis & OCD is a good thing sometime I think now.
Hazel, I was shocked at the worst that could happen would be that someone's skin would peel comment. I couldn't figure out how to say it nicely, so just didn't post. Also I knew that she didn't want to listen to any advice, and had an answer for everything.
When she stated: " Chemical reactions are predictable. If you know what you are doing and are very accurate, follow all steps carefully, etc. then the product should be safe."
Well the reason you don't know about what could go wrong is that you don't have enough experience, and should be safe just doesn't cut it.
In any case I don't think there is a soap maker on this board that is afraid of newbie competition, or worries that the newbie will produce a better product.
I see experienced soap makers give newbies advice all the time.
It is more of a question of producing a bad product, too high a cleansing number, or too much of the wrong oil, and then DOS.
I have seen newbie soapers join this board, and soar, they asked alot of questions, and took the time to ponder the answers. In other words they listened. Sometimes is isn't a question of how long, it has been since you made your first batch of soap, but what have you learned?
When she stated: " Chemical reactions are predictable. If you know what you are doing and are very accurate, follow all steps carefully, etc. then the product should be safe."
Well the reason you don't know about what could go wrong is that you don't have enough experience, and should be safe just doesn't cut it.
In any case I don't think there is a soap maker on this board that is afraid of newbie competition, or worries that the newbie will produce a better product.
I see experienced soap makers give newbies advice all the time.
It is more of a question of producing a bad product, too high a cleansing number, or too much of the wrong oil, and then DOS.
I have seen newbie soapers join this board, and soar, they asked alot of questions, and took the time to ponder the answers. In other words they listened. Sometimes is isn't a question of how long, it has been since you made your first batch of soap, but what have you learned?
I’m sorry but I have to reply to this one. The worst you can do is probably make someone peel? How about ensuring your soap isn’t harmful to someone before you sell it? Disclaimer – I’m not writing this to ridicule. I’m just utterly flabbergasted by this comment.[/QUOTE]
Flabbergasted it an understatement. Some skin types cannot be peeled without the high possibility of causing heavy scarring. Olive skin like my daughter has Cannot be peeled. That came from her doctor when she was younger. So yes, just causing skin to peel can cause damage
Flabbergasted it an understatement. Some skin types cannot be peeled without the high possibility of causing heavy scarring. Olive skin like my daughter has Cannot be peeled. That came from her doctor when she was younger. So yes, just causing skin to peel can cause damage
Sometimes threads take on a life of their own and yes there is some constructive information here. Like any post, or forum you do not have to read it. Soapers in here are actually quite gentle compared to other forums...
