Itchy skin using cp soap with 4 wk cure

[DMack]

Hi,

I’m just starting to make soap and my first batch has had a four week cure. I used 100g coconut oil, 500g olive oil and essential oils - rose geranium, lavender and bergamot. I’m not allergic to any of these ingredients individually and have used this oil blend in moisturiser for approx 6 mths now. I used a calculator to work out the lye and probably too much water going by advice I’ve received from another post- 195g. I did the zap test, but not a ph test, and it was fine. The super fat was 5% and according to the calc this soap is conditioning. I did have itching after using a 100% olive oil soap a couple of years ago

my problem is I’ve developed itchy skin on my hands, not dry, and after 4 days of using. I do have mild ezcema but it’s well controlled with mild soap and moisturiser. I’ve previously been using a commercial coconut and olive oil for about 18 mths very successfully which is one reason why I wanted to try making my own. I’ve used the soap on my face and body but obviously hands get the most washing, especially these days.

anyone with any advice or tips it would be much appreciated

thanks!

 

[KimW]

Two things... I get contact dermatitis from detergents. So, not eczema, but maybe a close second. When I started using real soap many years ago it took a number of weeks for my hands to adapt, for lack of a better word. The dermatitis stopped, but my hands were dry and flaky for a number of weeks. Not sure how long you've been using your soap, but maybe your skin just needs to adjust? The other thing: Soap made with anything besides palm kernal/palm oil soap leaves my hands feeling very dry. Perhaps oils other than what you've used here (CO and OO) would give you better skin results?

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't have eczema or dermatitis so I can't speak to either problem, but I can critique your recipe.

Many people are sensitive to soap high in lauric and myristic acids -- the main fatty acids in coconut oil. You may not be able to use any coconut in your soap or at least cut it back a lot. Your recipe is about 17% coconut. DIal it back -- try recipes at zero %, 5%, and maybe 10%. See how they work for you.

A fair number of people are sensitive to soap high in olive oil. If you were sensitive to olive oil soap in the past, I'm surprised you tried to make a soap so high in olive oil. I would suggest trying other fats high in oleic acid as alternatives to olive -- high oleic (HO) sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, sweet almond oil, rice bran oil, etc. Perhaps other soap makers who are sensitive to olive will suggest alternatives that work for them.

Also, a coconut-olive soap is very soluble in water, so when you use a soap like this, you're going to get a lot more soap on your washcloth and skin than if the soap is less soluble. If you have sensitive skin, it could be reacting not only to the kind of soap but also to the amount of soap. Adding a fat such as palm, lard, tallow, or the butters (shea, cocoa, etc) will add more palmitic and stearic acid which will make the soap less soluble, longer lasting, and perhaps somewhat less drying to the skin.

By the way, don't confuse the properties of a particular FAT with the properties of the SOAP made from that fat. Coconut is a classic example -- pure coconut oil is nice on the skin and hair, but a 100% coconut oil soap is very harsh and drying.

 

[Michele M.]

To relieve itching. One thing my housemate discovered that helps to relieve all manner of itching -- and I found it works for me and my son and his girlfriend as well -- is CLARY SAGE essential oil. Neither of us ever read anything to make us think it would work for that purpose, but she is a big experimenter, and viola! It's our main go-to for itching.

 

[BattleGnome]

Another thing that could be contributing: do you have hard water?

I think DeeAnna is pretty spot on about her olive oil substitution suggestions but another culprit could be hard water. I doubt it’s your main issue. Adding a chelating agent such as sodium citrate could alleviate some of the itching. Hard water can react with soap to create soap scum which can make skin itchy.

another thing would be to give your soap a much longer cure. Test it every few weeks and see how it improves. Olive oil soaps like a long cure. 100% olive oil is often cured a year or longer. With over 50% olive oil I wouldn’t be surprised if your soap needs at least 6 months to reach its best, if you can even handle olive oil soaps. I’ve mostly switched out olive oil in my recipes, which has also helped my wallet.

 

[DMack]

Thanks all. I tried this recipe based on successfully using the commercial blend. Of course there’s no way of knowing their ratios. i believe the water is soft here but I can certainly give the cure longer and try other blends

I don't have eczema or dermatitis so I can't speak to either problem, but I can critique your recipe.

Many people are sensitive to soap high in lauric and myristic acids -- the main fatty acids in coconut oil. You may not be able to use any coconut in your soap or at least cut it back a lot. Your recipe is about 17% coconut. DIal it back -- try recipes at zero %, 5%, and maybe 10%. See how they work for you.

A fair number of people are sensitive to soap high in olive oil. If you were sensitive to olive oil soap in the past, I'm surprised you tried to make a soap so high in olive oil. I would suggest trying other fats high in oleic acid as alternatives to olive -- high oleic (HO) sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, sweet almond oil, rice bran oil, etc. Perhaps other soap makers who are sensitive to olive will suggest alternatives that work for them.

Also, a coconut-olive soap is very soluble in water, so when you use a soap like this, you're going to get a lot more soap on your washcloth and skin than if the soap is less soluble. If you have sensitive skin, it could be reacting not only to the kind of soap but also to the amount of soap. Adding a fat such as palm, lard, tallow, or the butters (shea, cocoa, etc) will add more palmitic and stearic acid which will make the soap less soluble, longer lasting, and perhaps somewhat less drying to the skin.

By the way, don't confuse the properties of a particular FAT with the properties of the SOAP made from that fat. Coconut is a classic example -- pure coconut oil is nice on the skin and hair, but a 100% coconut oil soap is very harsh and drying.

thank you for the reply, I’m going to experiment with percentages and other fats, I am intrigued by using lard but may I ask your thoughts on superfatting? my original recipe was approx 5% but thinking of upping to 10% for my next try

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm not the person to talk to about high superfat percentages -- I think high superfat amounts are not necessary for a well balanced recipe. Extra fat definitely cuts the lather, and it doesn't necessarily make for a milder soap. Just a fattier one. But many other soap makers think otherwise, so bear in mind my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I usually set up a recipe to use 2-3% superfat and I also correct for the NaOH purity. By correcting for the purity, the actual superfat in the soap is pretty close to 2-3%.

To explain -- Most soap recipe calculators don't make a correction for NaOH purity. They assume the NaOH is 100% pure, even though it's seldom even close to 100%. The difference between the purity of your NaOH and 100% adds an additional "hidden" superfat. So if you set up a recipe for 5% superfat and your NaOH is 96% pure (pretty typical), the actual superfat is closer to 5% + 4% = 9%.

 

[Adobehead]

did you say 4 weeks cure? try it again in 2 more weeks, it might be different. I have noticed changes in my soaps between 4 and 6 weeks. With me it was less drying.

 

[SoapSisters]

I agree with @DeeAnna about lowering the coconut oil. I use 12% CO because if I go any higher my skin starts feeling dry and itchy.

 

[DMack]

did you say 4 weeks cure? try it again in 2 more weeks, it might be different. I have noticed changes in my soaps between 4 and 6 weeks. With me it was less drying.

I gave it three more weeks and wow what a difference! Way better. I‘m still going to try different oils, I have a lard based one curing as we speak but I’m much happier with this one now

 

[DMack]

I don't have eczema or dermatitis so I can't speak to either problem, but I can critique your recipe.

Many people are sensitive to soap high in lauric and myristic acids -- the main fatty acids in coconut oil. You may not be able to use any coconut in your soap or at least cut it back a lot. Your recipe is about 17% coconut. DIal it back -- try recipes at zero %, 5%, and maybe 10%. See how they work for you.

A fair number of people are sensitive to soap high in olive oil. If you were sensitive to olive oil soap in the past, I'm surprised you tried to make a soap so high in olive oil. I would suggest trying other fats high in oleic acid as alternatives to olive -- high oleic (HO) sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, sweet almond oil, rice bran oil, etc. Perhaps other soap makers who are sensitive to olive will suggest alternatives that work for them.

Also, a coconut-olive soap is very soluble in water, so when you use a soap like this, you're going to get a lot more soap on your washcloth and skin than if the soap is less soluble. If you have sensitive skin, it could be reacting not only to the kind of soap but also to the amount of soap. Adding a fat such as palm, lard, tallow, or the butters (shea, cocoa, etc) will add more palmitic and stearic acid which will make the soap less soluble, longer lasting, and perhaps somewhat less drying to the skin.

By the way, don't confuse the properties of a particular FAT with the properties of the SOAP made from that fat. Coconut is a classic example -- pure coconut oil is nice on the skin and hair, but a 100% coconut oil soap is very harsh and drying.

Have you made a 100% sweet almond oil soap? I’ve read Castile soaps can be slimy with no or little latter but wondered about an almond oil one. Would love to hear your suggestions if you have five minutes

 

[DeeAnna]

I've never used sweet almond in soap, so I don't have an opinion, @DMack. I know others have, so maybe they'll chime in.

 

[cmzaha]

100% SAO does not make a nice soap so save your time and money. I made the SAO in April 2020 2% superfat, distilled vinegar 50% water replacement EDTA/Sodium Gluconate at 1% total. It is still slimy with barely any lather. I will add 100% Avocado also makes a lousy single oil soap although it feels good when your hands dry, but produces 0 lather.

I have severe Eczema and my favorite soap is 40/27% Tallow/lard. I have trouble with DOS using lard so I never go over 27%. I also like to use 8/8% CO/PKO split, 5% castor, balance any HO oil such as Canola, with a 3% superfat also adjusted for purity, cure 3-4 months. This fact I have never mentioned before because I was selling and never gave up all my little secrets. I always purchase my lye from the same local chemical company which supplied current COA and SDS paperwork.

 

[Anstarx]

Just wanna chime in about 100% SAO soap. I made a batch of 100% SAO, dissolved the lye with milk, and added sugar and syrup as additive, mostly just want to see how it works.
The batch was made in early August. I grabbed a bar last week to try. It only has a bit of fluffy bubbles but it's definitely not slimey, at least not as slimey as my castile, and I think the lather will improve if I give it a longer cure. I can post a picture if anyone's interested. I believe the key was the more than enough sugar I added. Aside from the milk, I used 35ml cane syrup in a 400g oil batch, much more than I would usually use since I want the soap to heat up and harden faster.
I don't have any serious skin condition, but this SAO soap feels nice and gentle, I almost forgot that to use a moisturizer because how gentle it is.

 

[Daisy]

100% SAO does not make a nice soap so save your time and money. I made the SAO in April 2020 2% superfat, distilled vinegar 50% water replacement EDTA/Sodium Gluconate at 1% total. It is still slimy with barely any lather. I will add 100% Avocado also makes a lousy single oil soap although it feels good when your hands dry, but produces 0 lather.

I have severe Eczema and my favorite soap is 40/27% Tallow/lard. I have trouble with DOS using lard so I never go over 27%. I also like to use 8/8% CO/PKO split, 5% castor, balance any HO oil such as Canola, with a 3% superfat also adjusted for purity, cure 3-4 months. This fact I have never mentioned before because I was selling and never gave up all my little secrets. I always purchase my lye from the same local chemical company which supplied current COA and SDS paperwork.

@cmzaha
Quick question for you if you don't mind
What is your experience if at all with Oatmeal Soap for eczema? I make mine with Colloidal Oat Flour and some Ground Oats for exfoliation. My friends have reported back that it eases their itching.
Thanks

 

[KiwiMoose]

@cmzaha
Quick question for you if you don't mind
What is your experience if at all with Oatmeal Soap for eczema? I make mine with Colloidal Oat Flour and some Ground Oats for exfoliation. My friends have reported back that it eases their itching.
Thanks

I make an oat milk soap ( make my own oat milk for it) with ground oats and I have a couple of customers with eczema who swear by it. The recipe is just my standard recipe with no special tweaks - I just use the oat milk as the water component is all. I don't know whether it works or not, or if it's just a placebo effect, but they seem to love it.

 

[AliOop]

My husband has both eczema and psoriasis, and he really likes the colloidal oats I put in his bars, along with the neem oil - efinitely less itching and dry feeling than other soaps.

 

[DMack]

I make an oat milk soap ( make my own oat milk for it) with ground oats and I have a couple of customers with eczema who swear by it. The recipe is just my standard recipe with no special tweaks - I just use the oat milk as the water component is all. I don't know whether it works or not, or if it's just a placebo effect, but they seem to love it.

Is this literally soaking oats in water? I’m so fascinated by what I’m reading from everyone

 

[KiwiMoose]

Is this literally soaking oats in water? I’m so fascinated by what I’m reading from everyone

Pretty much! How to Make Oat Milk
Hot tip: Save the oatmeal grounds and make porridge out of them - for some reason the porridge is MUCH yummier this way.

 

[DMack]

Pretty much! How to Make Oat Milk
Hot tip: Save the oatmeal grounds and make porridge out of them - for some reason the porridge is MUCH yummier this way.

does the lye not effect the benefits of the oats? I‘m going to try this anyway in my next recipe - thank you for the recipes you worked out for me- as I figure if nothing else it won’t hurt