Issue with body wash - runny!

[TC472]

Hi folks,

I use Stephensons Premium Hair & Body Wash Base to make body wash (funny that eh!). For a single 260ish bottle it's 150ml base, 7ml scent, a drop of colour and 100ml CAPB. I've made quite a few and all have turned out really well. Great fragrance and viscosity.

That is, until I made one with Lime Basil & Mandarin scent. It turned to a water like consistency

No matter what I tried (more CAPB, salt), I couldn't get the viscosity to where it needed it to be so eventually (after numerous efforts) I gave up.

Has anyone else experienced this with this particular scent, or any other scent, where no matter what, it just wouldn't work? If you have, did you manage to fix the problem without resorting to things like Xanthum etc.

Thanks

 

[DeeAnna]

Most people don't realize there's a specific concentration of salt that gives optimum viscosity for a given formulation. If the salt content is higher or lower than this optimum, the viscosity will drop off, sometimes dramatically.

If you haven't done a "salt curve" to determine the optimum salt dose for this specific combination of FO, water, surfactants, etc., you probably should do that before you decide salt doesn't work. (If you have done a salt curve, ignore this advice!)

I am not as experienced using surfactants as thickeners as I am salt. Since I know surfactants can increase viscosity based on their electrical charges, just as salt does, I don't know that I'd assume increasing the CAPB percentage will automatically add thickness. I'd want to do some testing, just as with salt, to see if there's an optimum.

 

[TC472]

Hi DeeAnna,

I did check out the correct ratio for adding salt as I read that adding too much has the opposite effect and can make the base even thinner as instead of attracting the molecules to bond together they repel them (good God...science stuff!). My explanation is not the best but you know what I mean lol.

CAPB has worked for every other body wash I made except for this particular scent which is (according to the wife) a very popular one .

Right now I looking into Xanthan Gum. I think I may have to go down that route.

 

[justjacqui]

This is the limitation of using a base. Whilst it works great most of the time there are limitations.

Some fragrances are known to cause significant thinning and in this case you can't adjust much in your formula to counteract this. You could try a thickener like Crothix. Xanthan Gum is known for giving a snotty and slimy texture and may be hard to incorporate into a ready made base.

If you were working with a formula that you developed from scratch you would have more options.

You could also try reducing the amount of fragrance. Start at ~0.3% and increase gradually.

 

[TC472]

This is the limitation of using a base. Whilst it works great most of the time there are limitations.

Some fragrances are known to cause significant thinning and in this case you can't adjust much in your formula to counteract this. You could try a thickener like Crothix. Xanthan Gum is known for giving a snotty and slimy texture and may be hard to incorporate into a ready made base.

If you were working with a formula that you developed from scratch you would have more options.

You could also try reducing the amount of fragrance. Start at ~0.3% and increase gradually.

I knew that certain scents affect the base differently but was surprised at jut how dramatic that affect was. The wife said thats ok....we just don't make body wash with that scent (very pragmatic is the Mrs). As for reducing the scent %. I suggested that to the wife and had my knuckles wrapped. Apparently that was the wrong thing to say to her.

I've used crothix but it is costly for the amounts I'm making and I've ordered some xanthan and we'll see how that goes.

 

[Dooleykins]

I don't have a suggestion for your problem, but I do have a question.

I use the same body wash base. What do you find is the advantage of adding additional CAPB to the base?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I use Stephensons Premium Hair & Body Wash Base

This is a case where I would ask the supplier for answers.

 

[lsg]

You could try adding a little Cocamidopropyl Betaine or a product called Bubble Wash Thickener, INCI: PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate, PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Water.

 

[DeeAnna]

....What do you find is the advantage of adding additional CAPB to the base?

In the context of this thread, the OP is using CAPB as a thickener.