Is this “soap”? It’s advertised as soap
Is this “soap”
- Thread starter ewhitake
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Is this “soap”? It’s advertised as soap
I don't pretend to know what those ingredients are in plain English, but I don't see anything that my mind can turn into lye. Maybe it's a melt-and-pour that has already been soponified and therefore lye isn't in the ingredients? I'm curious to see what someone who knows such things says!
artemis
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Try this post
Post in thread 'Formula of a famous soap' https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/formula-of-a-famous-soap.93370/post-1010788
Post in thread 'Formula of a famous soap' https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/formula-of-a-famous-soap.93370/post-1010788
The first three are sodium salts of fatty acids, or what we call soap (potassium salts are also soap, but different). Yup, this is soap, with a bunch of additives
Oh, so by calling is "sodium palmate" that actually means "soponified palm oil" (or whatever palmate is)? Because palm oil mixed with lye is no longer palm oil and lye, but soap?
Exactly. Sodium cocoate is a mixture of salts of the fatty acids found in coconut oil (mostly lauric and myristic acid) and so on. In our practice we usually leave some unsaponified oils when we SF, but you get the idea
Thank you! This old dog is loving learning new information!
So is describing it this way trying to avoid using NoAh? And I’m a new soaper and don’t understand why you would add glycerin and at what point you would add it?
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It could be an attempt to avoid listing NaOH on the label, but listing all post-saponification ingredients ("what comes out of the pot") is a legal and correct way to label soap. Most small soapmakers list what goes into the pot, as that is less work for us.
Glycerin most likely was not added as a separate ingredient. Since this label lists all ingredients coming out of the pot (i.e., after the soap was made), that is going to include glycerin, which is a natural byproduct of saponification.
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Is that THE correct way to label, or is it A correct way? I am currently just making for family & friends, and I write on the label what ingredients I put in the pot. Legalities, licenses, FDA approval, labeling, etc. is distressing to me. I just want to make nice soap!
The ingredients list in the first post is a valid and legal listing of the ingredients in a finished lye-based soap. What people call the "what comes out of the pot" method of creating an ingredients list. Glycerin is correctly included in this list since glycerin is created during the saponification process.
The sodium palmitate, sodium coconate, etc. names are correct INCI names for soap made from palm oil, coconut oil, etc. when reacted with sodium hydroxide. There is no intent to deceive going on -- it's how ingredients lists are done in countries that follow EU standards. And you'll also see this method used in the US as a valid and legal way to provide an ingredients list by companies that sell in the US and other countries.
As an alternative method that's legal in the US, we can use the "what goes into the pot method", so if you're using the FDA cosmetic labeling standards, your ingredients list would include palm oil, coconut oil, etc. along with sodium hydroxide.
Or, again in the US, if you're making soap with no other claims than it's a cleanser, you can use any weasel worded method ("saponified oils of...") you like to create an ingredients list. Or don't provide any ingredients list at all.
The sodium palmitate, sodium coconate, etc. names are correct INCI names for soap made from palm oil, coconut oil, etc. when reacted with sodium hydroxide. There is no intent to deceive going on -- it's how ingredients lists are done in countries that follow EU standards. And you'll also see this method used in the US as a valid and legal way to provide an ingredients list by companies that sell in the US and other countries.
As an alternative method that's legal in the US, we can use the "what goes into the pot method", so if you're using the FDA cosmetic labeling standards, your ingredients list would include palm oil, coconut oil, etc. along with sodium hydroxide.
Or, again in the US, if you're making soap with no other claims than it's a cleanser, you can use any weasel worded method ("saponified oils of...") you like to create an ingredients list. Or don't provide any ingredients list at all.
Not a problem, we all live and learn each day!
People DO add glycerin to soap, apart from the already present byproduct the others mentioned. One application is to help make transparent soap (including clear soap base), another one is in shaving soap - to give some more slickness to the lather, and/or to make it so you can melt it and reshape it for different mugs. It's a humectant and when people increase its content in soap they sometimes do it to make a bar feel gentler to the skin when you wash with it, like balancing the initial sense of dryness - like a buffer, similar to upping the SF % to make it feel milder of sort. Of course, too much glycerin can make a soap feel rubbery and soft. It also attracts moisture from the air and that results in drops of "sweat", if it's not stored properly. People can add it to the oils before the lye solution, I believe others add it at trace or after HP cook as well. There are probably more ways to use it and more applications, I'm sure someone else will chime in with additional info, or correct me if I'm wrong in any of the points I made.
As the others mentioned, that's one of the methods. I can confirm that in EU both are legal - 'in the pot' and 'out of the pot'. I'm not sure about the 'saponified oils of' method though, so I can't confirm that and its legal status. But if you are only making for family and friends and you are not selling, don't stress over it. Just use whatever you are comfortable with, as long as the people who use your product can be warned about any ingredient they can be allergic to and whatnot.
