Is it only me......

[Desert Karen]

Is there some kind of hostility between CP and MP soap makers? :???:

 

[Shannon_m]

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I started out doing MP and moved on to CP, however I still do some MP because there is so much you can do with MP that you can't with CP and vice versa. There is a certain kind of artistry with all kinds of crafts, especially with soaps. I have seen some beautiful works of art in both MP and CP/HP soaps. I have loads of respect for anyone that makes soap, no matter the kind.

 

[Lindy]

I don't personally feel there should be. MP is a totally different beast and the point of it is the artistic expression in a soap that is gentler than commercial With the new formulations available to them there is now the option of SLS free.

I think some CPers feel superior because they are making their soap from scratch, I feel that is simply arrogance which is sadly part of human nature.

I would hope that most of us see there is room for both and if you were to go onto FaceBook and look up the MP groups you would be amazed at some of their designs. It's things we as CPers can never obtain.

 

[Cindiq4u]

If there is, there shouldn't be.
I love seeing soapmakers on youtube that celebrate both MP and CP.
Even combining the two.
It's refreshing to see people keeping their minds open to new ideas.
It's kind of like saying that EO's are the only way to scent soap, yet there's so much out there to explore.
I love playing with EO's, yet I love all the fun scents FO's offer. I don't know if I could emulate with an EO or legally make the Cannibus flower scent without the help of an FO.
There's something out there for everyone, thank goodness.

 

[Amybell]

I've seen it too. To me, it's unfortunate. I really like both mediums (CP and MP) for completely different reasons.

I like MP because there's no waiting for it to cure. I can do a fun project on a whim and be able to enjoy it pretty much immediately. It's also more WYSIWYG since there's no morphing of colors and scents from the lye. And I can share the process with my 11yo daughter who loves designing and making soap. At her age (and attention span--haha), it's not practical to heavily involve her in the CP process.

I like CP because I can control all of the ingredients. I get a charge out of the idea of creating something from nothing, too. Also, CP soapmaking satisfies my inner artist and inner science nerd at the same time. That's pretty tough to do.

Much of the hostility I've seen between the two groups is over the term "handmade". I understand that to some extent, but it doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. I guess I don't really understand the problem. While an average consumer might not have the greatest idea about soapmaking processes, they do have the ability to read the ingredient panel. Both are made at home, and both are generally a much different product than the raw materials with which they started. Most people can look at the ingredients in a soap and see which one is more processed, as commercially available MP soaps--by nature--have to be. Some don't care about those things, and some do. It's like anything else. There's no reason, in my mind, that both can't coexist together peacefully.

 

[Lindy]

Something to keep in mind is that Soap Guild recognizes both mediums as hand-crafted. That should be a signal to everyone else.

Now on the other side of the conversation there are inexperienced MPers that believe they are making their soap from scratch just not having to use lye. The good news is that there are very few of them because as they learn more they discover what is truly happening in their process. Then there are those that try to present their soaps as if they were CP because they don't know how to market the artistic expression in their products. But that is no worse than CPers that present their soaps as 100% natural which is simply not possible unless you are making your lye the old fashioned way which is really KOH.

Amybell I totally agree that there is no reason we can't co-exist and learn from each other.

 

[Desert Karen]

I'll tell ya, I was at a weekly street fair we have in town last week. There was a man with a very large space, selling MP soap. I picked up a few soaps to sniff, and I noticed a soap he had that smelled of vanilla. The clear part of his soap was brownish, so I asked him if the color was intentional or did he have to use an additive to his soap like CP soapers do. BOOM! I used the wrong words. CP SOAP. He knew that I new a bit about soaping. He snapped and said, no, his intention was for the brown to show. I was like, yeah, okay, not a problem just asking. He walked away and I held up another soap, turned to my husband and said, this looks like ash. Mr. behind the counter, puffed out his chest, tipped back on his heals and LOUDLY proclaimed that I knew nothing about soaping. ASH he said, is nothing more then FUNGUS, and if I have ASK on MY soap, I am not making it in a sterile environment! Holy crap Batman, I didn't say ASH to offend and I was not asking HIM (dude must have had bionic ears) . I was just curious, and that's what I told him. I told him that I knew nothing about MP soap except that the designs were/are pretty.

On the lighter side....kinda anyway...we also have a retail shop that sells goodies, called Sinfulisus (sp?), They have a shop here in Palm Springs and in San Diego. I found them on Yelp. Reading the reviews on how determined the staff is to give you the hard sell. I walked in and a nice lady asked me if I would like to have a sugar scrub on my hands. I was very blunt and honest with her. I said I live in town, and I'm sorry, I wasn't there to make a purchase, but I wanted to see the massive amounts of fragrances they had. I was blunt, but I did not want to give her the brush off after she used all her wind on me. Actually, I wanted to main line the patchouli. It reminded me of high school, back in the day.

 

[Shannon_m]

Ash is fungus? Wow. I'll have to remember that. <oh that was sarcasm, just sayin>

 

[Badger]

I started my soaping with MP and now also do CP. I can appreciate them both for different aspects that they have to them. I do not see one as better then the other and I know that their are talented people that do both. I am sure that in some places there might be some animosity or hostility with one feeling superior to the other. I can say that it is not something that I have seen on this forum, and I am glad of that. I find both forms of artistic expression appealing and respect both people as people no matter which path they choose

 

[AngelMomma]

I don't sell my CP soaps. Friends and FAmily are just forced to accept them as gifts So I haven't ever been in a 'selling' environment. But I think both CP and MP are cool. Art is in the eye and imagination of the creator. I have seen some very cool designs of BOTH! As far as if MP is handmade......well if I made a birdhouse......I wouldn't actually MAKE the wood, just the design and how its put together.

 

[Seifenblasen]

I tend to think the encounter with the insecure MP soap guy was an isolated incident! Sometimes people become aggressive and nasty because they don't know the answer to everything (It is perfectly OK not to know everything, but obviously not OK in their arrogant atrophied brains).

It is a bit unfair to generalize that there is hostility between MP and CP soap makers. I agree with some PPs, that at I am not seeing it on this forum.

 

[melstan775]

I have to agree with Lindy that it's just arrogance. I have seen so many posts about different things accross the internet, though haven't heard in "real life" yet, that people imply that MP soap isn't handcrafted soap, which is just ridiculous. Saying MP base isn't real soap is like saying TD isn't an iron oxide because you didn't go out on the hill behind your house and dig it up yourself. MP base can be made in a crockpot, but why bother, when there are already so many nice bases available? Therefore, it is my personal opinion, if we recognize the MP base as a supply for soapmaking, then soaps made from those bases are handcrafted. End of story.

You can do a lot with CP soap that you can with MP in my opinion, but once again the question is why bother? You can take your soaps carve our your curls and confettis with your veggie peeler, make your own transparent base and blue it a bit so it looks more clear, and scrape out your bowls that are starting to saponify and squish the remnants into soap balls to make all your soap decorations, but why would you? This is a slow cumbersome method that can be achieved in just a few hours with MP, instead of the weeks it would take to cure with CP.

Sorrybut I think anyone who thinks that MP soap isn't a craft is just jealous and threatened by MP soapers and need to increase their own skills before picking on someone else's.

 

[MaitriBB]

I do CP to get my science geek on, and MP to get my creative arty geek on

 

[Lilahblossom]

You gotta hand it to the MP folks. Some of their stuff is sooo intricate. Very fussy and very precise work. CP is a bit more flexible and free form in many respects. I do some MP and some CP, HP,CPOP! Just be sure you get your MP from a reputable source. Only ones I buy it from is Bramble Berry and Natures Garden. There may be other good sources that I haven't tried. I haven't been out in the soaping world much but have heard stories. It's too bad really and no need for it. Enough people need soap for all of us.

 

[Lindy]

I actually want to try making my own MP base just to say I did. I've learned how to make CP soap that I can melt down into a pourable soap but it is not an MP.

 

[melstan775]

I actually want to try making my own MP base just to say I did. I've learned how to make CP soap that I can melt down into a pourable soap but it is not an MP.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nw4CBN_RC0[/ame]

 

[panzerakc]

I'll tell ya, I was at a weekly street fair we have in town last week. There was a man with a very large space, selling MP soap.

I'm sorry you had to have this encounter, but better you than me. I would have been sorely tempted to just leave a little pile of ash where he had been standing.

(Ash is fungus?? Seriously???? :lolno: I wouldn't have used this guy's stuff to clean my toilet.)

I had a funny discussion with an MP soaper at a show last fall. I told her that I made CP soap, and asked if she did. Her answer (which made me giggle), was something to the effect of "No, I don't do the hard stuff like you do".

Anita

 

[Lindy]

Melstan thank you. I actually purchased a book on how to make MP soap from scratch. I just haven't had the time yet to do it. Way too busy restocking and taking care of some wholesale orders.

It is so on my to-do list though....

 

[Gryfonmoon]

I'll tell ya, I was at a weekly street fair we have in town last week. There was a man with a very large space, selling MP soap. I picked up a few soaps to sniff, and I noticed a soap he had that smelled of vanilla. The clear part of his soap was brownish, so I asked him if the color was intentional or did he have to use an additive to his soap like CP soapers do. BOOM! I used the wrong words. CP SOAP. He knew that I new a bit about soaping. He snapped and said, no, his intention was for the brown to show. I was like, yeah, okay, not a problem just asking. He walked away and I held up another soap, turned to my husband and said, this looks like ash. Mr. behind the counter, puffed out his chest, tipped back on his heals and LOUDLY proclaimed that I knew nothing about soaping. ASH he said, is nothing more then FUNGUS, and if I have ASK on MY soap, I am not making it in a sterile environment! Holy crap Batman, I didn't say ASH to offend and I was not asking HIM (dude must have had bionic ears) . I was just curious, and that's what I told him. I told him that I knew nothing about MP soap except that the designs were/are pretty.

I'm a bit more short tempered and would have told the guy to screw off, especially since you had no intention of insulting him in the first place. He needs to learn customer service and how to handle criticism (not that you were even that critical). If he can't deal with questions like that then he's not going to stay in business for too long.

Also, can ash form on MP soap? I don't know much about MP soaps, really.

 

[Genny]

Also, can ash form on MP soap? I don't know much about MP soaps, really.

Not on melt and pour bases, no. But it can form a glycerin powder that kind of resembles ash.