Is expensive butter worth it?

[ambers_artworld]

So, I've got a recipe that I like quite well, except that it seems to lack that extra "oomph" of silky luxury that I have felt from other handmade soap bars I've bought. My standard oils are olive, palm, CO or PKO, Castor at around 8%, and sometimes sweet almond at 5%, I SF at around 7-8%.

I've thought about trying some butters or Avocado oil...but seem to find mixed reviews on their effectiveness. Some soapers swear by their favorite, others say that expensive oils and butters don't really contribute enough of a difference to warrant their expense.

One other question, does milk or cream in place of water make as much/more of a difference as butters/avocado oil?

Thanks so much for your input before I plunk down the $$$!!!

 

[ruby61]

Try some tussah silk, i got 4 oz under ten bucks and will last probally around 50 or more batches. I also put a small amount of shea in mine and made a big difference so i did not have to up the butter. My soap feels silky now.
I think for the butters unless you put over10% or more wont make much of a difference.

 

[lsg]

I use silk fibers in my soap also. I would save the expensive butters for leave on products. When I first started soaping, I bought several high priced butters, but now my favorite fats and oils for soap are coconut, palm, rice bran, Castor, lard, Crisco and olive.

 

[ambers_artworld]

Sounds like I'll be getting myself some silk fibers!! I've been curious about Rice Bran oil too, might give that a go...I can get a 50lb case at a local shop for about $50 last time I checked

 

[lsg]

Sounds like a good deal on the rice bran as long as it doesn't contain any additives and is 100% rice bran oil.

 

[ambers_artworld]

Yes, that is a good point. Oh, one more question...does silk affect the lather at all?

 

[lsg]

I think it makes a smoother and richer lather.

 

[melstan775]

From a personal standpoint here, I like the butters. I have really dry, really irritable skin and even a plain olive & palm soap with shea butter will put the fire and irritation out and even add some moisture in a way nothing else can.

 

[Hazel]

I'm another person who likes to use butters for leave on products. I agree with opinions about adding tussah silk or silk fibers. It really does make a difference and a little amount goes a long way.

That's a great price for rice bran oil! I used to use RBO in soap and I never noticed an increase in the silkiness of the lather because of it by itself. I used it to sub out some olive oil in my recipes. I also found RBO is nicer in soap if it's blended with oils like safflower (I'd recommend high oleic for a longer shelf life but I used regular safflower and didn't get DOS) or apricot kernel oil. Off topic - all three of these oils are lovely in lotion if you also make it. I noticed a slight increase in silkiness of lather when I've used cream but not as much of a difference that silk contributes to soap.

BTW, soap does not contribute moisture to the skin. I have dry, sensitive skin so I keep coconut oil percentage low to make soap less drying and use a higher lye discount - usually 7%-8%. This makes the soap milder and allows a little more oils to remain unsaponified to increase conditioning/emolliency. I use lotion made with the expensive butters as a moisturizer if I need something more for dry skin. :wink:

 

[MaitriBB]

My standard recipe includes shea butter, kaolin clay, and tussah silk. All of them contribute a silkier feel to the end product.

 

[Genny]

I'm not a silk fan, but I love me some avocado oil. I use it in almost all my soap recipes & my lip balm

 

[ambers_artworld]

Hmmmm that makes sense that the purpose of soap is not to add moisture to the skin, but rather be mild enough to not overly strip it...I think sometimes I expect my soap to do the job of a lotion...I need to switch my thinking to mildness rather than moisture, it seems. Well, other than that, it looks like I have all the excuses I need from these various opinions to go on a shopping spree and give it ALL a try!!! Man, I love this forum. Thanks so much, everyone!!

 

[ambers_artworld]

Okay so another question that is off-topic but I hate to start a whole new thread...I am eyeballing a new soap recipe to try on SoapCalc, that has 20% Castor oil. Usually I use 7-8% Castor. If I go as high as 20%, my soft oils being at 40% and my hard oils being at 60%, does anyone foresee any problems with that? Also, should I keep it at 7-8%SF or do a lower SF? I am considering adding Rosemary oleoresin or Vit. E to it if that helps...

 

[Genny]

20% castor oil during soap use feels sticky & draggy to me. But what are the other oils? If your other oils are mainly coconut & you're making a salt soap, then 20% castor won't be too bad.


Also, SF doesn't really have anything to do with rancidity if you're worried about that.

 

[ambers_artworld]

Other oils are Palm and Coconut, and Rice bran or Olive for the other 20% soft oils (maybe sub 5% of that with Sweet Almond or some kind of butter since I'm experimenting). As for the SF, I was concerned with softness and stickiness with the high amount of castor, as well as possible rancidity...good to know I can scratch at least one of those concerns I was wondering if a SF at that level might be overly sticky with that much castor, or if it mattered much.

 

[Genny]

With that much castor it will be sticky. I'd still keep the superfat at 7-8% though since you'll have that much coconut & palm in there.

 

[ambers_artworld]

Hmmm. Sticky soap doesn't sound very awesome, I will continue my SoapCalc quest with another oil

 

[hoegarden]

I'm not a silk fan, but I love me some avocado oil. I use it in almost all my soap recipes & my lip balm

I love avocado too. I love how it make the bubbles soft...

 

[Ruthie]

I absolutely LOVE my goats milk soaps. I have not tried silk fibres, but why mess with such a good thing? I'm getting to where just about every batch I make has partial or all GM!

 

[Hazel]

Hmmm. Sticky soap doesn't sound very awesome, I will continue my SoapCalc quest with another oil

I think adding some sunflower oil contributes a little silkiness to lather. I didn't discover this until I forgot to add tussah silk in a batch. I haven't used avocado for over 2 years so I don't remember how it felt. I do remember I liked it but I decided to switch to high oleic sunflower for the extra conditioning and a longer shelf life. I was very happy with HOSO into my recipes so I never bought more avocado.

BTW, sticky isn't too bad. I have a recipe which is sticky for the first couple of months but surprisingly my sisters liked the soap. After 2 months, the sticky feeling is gone and they like it even better. It's only the second recipe I've ever formulated that they've asked for me to make again.

You might consider Ruthie's suggestion of using goat milk. I don't make GM soap but I'm occasionally given it. It does have a silkier feel to it and I know the woman who makes it doesn't add any additives to her soap.