Is doing M&P Cheating? Like a Box Cake Mix?

[seven]

amen bbrown and Susie

 

[marilynmac]

MP is not "making soap"; it is "making ART with soap".
CP / HP is "making soap", and if you want to do art, you can do art with it too.

2 different things; both great creative endeavors; both can end up with a product other people want to buy that you can call "soap".

 

[LBussy]

Yeah ... 'cuz the soap I make is not artistic. :grin:

 

[Susie]

No, the soap I make is not art. Truly! No swirls or fancy stuff for me.

 

[jules92207]

As my hubby says I just make a mess. Good thing it's soap to clean up after me.

 

[snappyllama]

I actually think cold process is easier than melt and pour.

With M&P, I can never get it as perfect looking as I think it should be... there's always a bubble or a layer that isn't just right or something. It drives me batty. I feel like CP is less frantic (so long as my FO is behaving and I'm not over blending like a whirling dervish after Starbucks). The pace of it suits me.

It's like cooking... I can make some good tasting grub (if I do say so), but I'll never have the patience to 'plate' it. Buffet style at my house!

 

[SpringLily16]

I make both types of soaps....you can do with one that you cannot do with the other. You can create beautiful soaps with each. I love that we have the options!

 

[seven]

i'm with snappy on this. i think cp/hp is easier than mp. i started with mp, but changed to cp and never looked back. i still do mp sometimes, but not in the level that some artisan soapers do. i've seen some very beautiful mp soaps. i don't think it's cheating. they are different beasts.

 

[FBody355]

I always think it's so sad that people think it's a "dog eat dog world". I've been to an event with another soaper & omg, I would never think of saying that! We even plan to do a couple more events that we are both at. Everyone's soap is different.
To me, M&P is way too thin of a consitancy for me to work with, it's very aggrivating! I can easily control my CP soap. I very rarely dabble in the M&P though. Only once in a while to make embeds.

 

[Logansama]

I work my butt off when I do MP! LOL! I much prefer making CP. And I do charge the same because I buy quality MP base so the cost is similar.
And I'll share this nugget: my daughter is a private chef and she works for clients like Johnny Depp and Tim Burton. She uses cake mixes and dresses them up when she's either short on time or storage space.

 

[Mandarin]

I do CP, HP and MP soap. There are no snobs like CP snobs. Honestly, I mean it... So, you made your soap. Big deal! You can delve further into anything. Did you produce your own lye? Did you render your own tallow? Did you milk your own goat? Did you create every single oil by hand including the fragrances that you added to your wonderful CP soap? If not, can we truly call it from "scratch"? I think not.... Yes, CP snobs annoy the heck out of me because for some reason only known to God, they think they have cornered the market on "homemade". I have been on many message boards and it is always the same old story. And, believe me, I make CP soap, so I know the process. I just don't understand the process of acting so pompous about CP soap. End of my rant...

 

[LBussy]

... because making bread is combining ingredients and influencing the process. Bake and serve is just that. There is definitely a difference.

One is not better than the other, but there are people that are more tolerant than others. Snobbery may be in your own mind, or in your own actions.

 

[Mandarin]

... because making bread is combining ingredients and influencing the process. Bake and serve is just that. There is definitely a difference.

Combining ingredients that have been already made for you? If you put a cup of Gold Medal flour into your baking bowl, is this the same as if you produced your own flour at a mill? My grandmother said there is a huge difference, yet every baker today "thinks" their bread is homemade.... Of course there is a difference between CP and MP soap. But the difference does not mean that one is worth more than the other. You put in your ready-made lye and you add your manufactured oils and you stir it in a pot. Your bake and serve comment also has proven my point completely and has confirmed the fact that there are CP snobs on message boards.

 

[bbrown]

I do CP, HP and MP soap. There are no snobs like CP snobs. Honestly, I mean it... So, you made your soap. Big deal! You can delve further into anything. Did you produce your own lye? Did you render your own tallow? Did you milk your own goat? Did you create every single oil by hand including the fragrances that you added to your wonderful CP soap? If not, can we truly call it from "scratch"? I think not.... Yes, CP snobs annoy the heck out of me because for some reason only known to God, they think they have cornered the market on "homemade". I have been on many message boards and it is always the same old story. And, believe me, I make CP soap, so I know the process. I just don't understand the process of acting so pompous about CP soap. End of my rant...

So perfectly said.

 

[mx5inpenn]

Combining ingredients that have been already made for you? If you put a cup of Gold Medal flour into your baking bowl, is this the same as if you produced your own flour at a mill? My grandmother said there is a huge difference, yet every baker today "thinks" their bread is homemade.... Of course there is a difference between CP and MP soap. But the difference does not mean that one is worth more than the other. You put in your ready-made lye and you add your manufactured oils and you stir it in a pot. Your bake and serve comment also has proven my point completely and has confirmed the fact that there are CP snobs on message boards.

I'm a baker by trade. I don't go to a mill, but I do grind my own grains for some of my breads. I do it because it's a whole lot cheaper than buying it already ground. And I gotta say, I bake all of them from scratch, whether it's *my* flour or one I bought.

Different processes just bring about different results. Taking ingredients and combining them to make something different than what they were is making something.

 

[Lindy]

We seem to be getting a little heated here. This was a tolerant conversation until a few posts ago. Let's go back to tolerance.

Thank you

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

While keeping the tolarance in mind, I have to say that the points made by Mandarin are a little off -

Soap is made by combining oils and lye. That is how soap is made.

Soap is not made by straining water through ashes - that is how lye is made.

Soap is not made by squeezing olives - that is how olive oil is made.

So if I combine oils and lye, I have made soap myself. If I don't do that, then I have not made soap myself.

I do not think that CP/HP is better than M&P at all - I have always said that what people do with M&P amazes me and impresses me. It is not, however, making soap - the oils and lye have already been combined by someone else - the soap was made by someone else. Unless you make your own base, of course.

eta I find the title of this thread intentionally provocative and would of course get people's backs up - I'm very pleased how respectful most people have been, considering.

 

[LBussy]

I think folks have been very supportive of people who choose to make M&P (and vice versa) and I've not seen a post that did not reflect that ... until someone called people snobs.

 

[Susie]

I think comparing bake and serve bread to MP soaps is doing MP soaps quite a disservice. There is quite a bit more process to MP than bake and serve bread. Comparing it to cake mix from a box is more appropriate. All the same ingredients, they are just pre-measured and mixed.(How is that cheating? Still has to have liquids added, and stirred and baked....)

MP is still handmade. They just start at a different point of the process. I would use MP if I were into making fancy stuff, now that I know they have versions without SLS and other detergents. And the ONLY reason I started making soap was so that I could control every ingredient to get rid of eczema. I did not know MP existed at that stage.

There may be CP snobs that are out there. They are not here,(or they are staying very quiet, which is wise). I know it is easy to get defensive, but these are not the people you are angry at, please remember that.

 

[LBussy]

I think comparing bake and serve bread to MP soaps is doing MP soaps quite a disservice. There is quite a bit more process to MP than bake and serve bread. Comparing it to cake mix from a box is more appropriate. All the same ingredients, they are just pre-measured and mixed.(How is that cheating? Still has to have liquids added, and stirred and baked....)

I was continuing with the poster's analogy ... either way I like bread ... and cakes. Cake mix works ... and someone posted something about a chef that uses a cake mix and dresses it up. That's a perfect analogy. You can either heat and pour a bar (simple) or make something really wonderful.

I think we all agree they are different, and having different tools to use is what makes craftsmanship so interesting, rewarding, and effective.

All that being said, being called a snob because one points out that there is a difference between the two is pretty confrontational. Dogs are not cats, does that make me a cat snob? (There, try poke holes in that analogy! )