I want glycerin rivers!

[nframe]

Unlike some people, I like glycerin rivers. I made a layered soap and my intention was to have glycerin rivers in the middle section. So I made a lye concentration of 28% for the middle layer (as opposed to 35% for the other two), I mixed ultramarine blue and water-soluble TD with glycerin and added extra water (to reach the 28% lye concentration). I put the soap in the oven afterwards and this morning, no glycerin rivers anywhere! What else can I do to force the glycerin rivers?

 

[AliOop]

I like them, too! I find that using TD enhances the appearance of them.

Our @KiwiMoose is an expert on them; perhaps she will chime in and give more tips. Till then, here is the definitive glycerin river article from Auntie Clara.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Soap do what soap do! I soap with 28 - 30% lye concentration usually, and I always gel. I usually get it, but sometimes don't. Go figure. Maybe because the soap knew you wanted glycerine rivers it was just being contrary?

 

[sweethavenarts]

Warmth! My house sits at about 75 degrees F (in the summer!) and I keep getting glycerin rivers, especially in my soaps with titanium dioxide. I also keep getting cracks in the top so you know, it can't be awesome all the time?

 

[nframe]

Thank you all for your replies. I know the Auntie Clara article and thought I was doing everything right. I gave the soap more water, I gave it warmth, I used water-soluble TD. I think I will give it one more go and then give up after that!

 

[KiwiMoose]

But did it gel?

 

[nframe]

But did it gel?

Yes it did but no glycerin rivers. Maybe I didn't use enough TD. I'll try again and only use TD in the middle layer.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Pretend you don't want glycerin rivers and 'psych' the soap into giving them to you
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[DeeAnna]

You're more likely to get rivers if you use a recipe that contains a moderate amount of palmitic and stearic acids.

Also once the molded soap fully gels, let it cool as slllooooowly as possible. That is really the key to getting soap to form rivers. Slow cooling lets the different types of soap solidify at their own rate and increases the chance of rivers.

The old makers made what they called "figged" soap -- basically what we call rivers. They didn't use titanium dioxide, but they did add pigmented colorants such as ultramarine blue. They also covered their massive molds with tarps as insulation -- anything to get the soap to cool extra slowly.

 

[KiwiMoose]

You're more likely to get rivers if you use a recipe that contains a moderate amount of palmitic and stearic acids.

Also once the molded soap fully gels, let it cool as slllooooowly as possible. That is really the key to getting soap to form rivers. Slow cooling lets the different types of soap solidify at their own rate and increases the chance of rivers.

The old makers made what they called "figged" soap -- basically what we call rivers. They didn't use titanium dioxide, but they did add pigmented colorants such as ultramarine blue. They also covered their massive molds with tarps as insulation -- anything to get the soap to cool extra slowly.

Interesting DeeAnna - so you're you're saying the fatty acid profile actually plays a part? My recipe is quite high in stearic (23) with lower palmitic (13). Might that have something to do with it?

 

[DeeAnna]

Interesting DeeAnna - so you're you're saying the fatty acid profile actually plays a part? My recipe is quite high in stearic (23) with lower palmitic (13). Might that have something to do with it?

I really do think it does. There seem to be a lot of factors that affect whether rivers form or not, but it makes sense that the fatty acid profile should come into play. The "river" pattern happens when the various types of soap molecules solidify at different temps. Stearic and palmitic soaps will solidify at a different temp range than oleic soap.

 

[Savage Daughter]

Unlike some people, I like glycerin rivers. I made a layered soap and my intention was to have glycerin rivers in the middle section. So I made a lye concentration of 28% for the middle layer (as opposed to 35% for the other two), I mixed ultramarine blue and water-soluble TD with glycerin and added extra water (to reach the 28% lye concentration). I put the soap in the oven afterwards and this morning, no glycerin rivers anywhere! What else can I do to force the glycerin rivers?

I sometimes notice small bits of this, but have not gone out of my way to force the issue, or to prevent it. When it happens, it happens. I also use all natural colorants, which don't always behave as I 'expect' them to, so maybe I have just learned to be accepting of the results I get, in most cases. That said, when I am bent on getting a technique down, I will continue to work on it until I get it down

Good luck with your glycerine rivers

 

[nframe]

You're more likely to get rivers if you use a recipe that contains a moderate amount of palmitic and stearic acids.

Also once the molded soap fully gels, let it cool as slllooooowly as possible. That is really the key to getting soap to form rivers. Slow cooling lets the different types of soap solidify at their own rate and increases the chance of rivers.

The old makers made what they called "figged" soap -- basically what we call rivers. They didn't use titanium dioxide, but they did add pigmented colorants such as ultramarine blue. They also covered their massive molds with tarps as insulation -- anything to get the soap to cool extra slowly.

My palmitic acid is 19, stearic 7 (and oleic 38). Is that what you would define as moderate?

 

[KiwiMoose]

My palmitic acid is 19, stearic 7 (and oleic 38). Is that what you would define as moderate?

It's quite low compared to mine - maybe that's the key? My oleic is about 32 BTW.

 

[nframe]

It's quite low compared to mine - maybe that's the key? My oleic is about 32 BTW.

Who knows? I don't.
In the meantime, I made another batch and this time the middle layer only has TD. We'll find out tomorrow...

 

[DeeAnna]

My palmitic acid is 19, stearic 7 (and oleic 38). Is that what you would define as moderate?

I don't have a definitive answer. My guess is you've got enough palmitic and stearic (P+S) in your recipe to develop rivers if given the right conditions -- warm enough to gel + slow cooling + pigmented colorant to enhance the visibility of the patterns

A 100% coconut oil soap, according to Soapcalc, has a P+S of around 12%. 100% olive oil has a P+S of around 17%. I think this type of soap is much less likely to get rivers.

My recipes usually run around 30% P+S or a bit higher. I know these recipes will develop rivers if given a chance. One batch I did had nice rivers in the portion colored with titanium dioxide (pigmented colorant). The part colored with annatto-infused oil (dye colorant) did not develop visible rivers.

 

[nframe]

Well, here it is! Still no glycerin rivers although the middle looks weird.

Here is the recipe I used:
5 avocado oil
8 castor
25 coconut
25 olive
27 palm
10 shea butter

What can I tweak to make it more glycerin river-prone?

 

[AliOop]

You did it! Those are definitely glycerin rivers in the light portion of the soap.

 

[Ford]

And they complete the design. Meaning, they look better than a plain smooth center. Like AliOop,s comment. Mission accomplished.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Love the look of that soap - and they look like glycerin rivers to me. Maybe not as 'rivery' as you wanted?