I quit.

[Obsidian]

I just checked the reviews of your FO on nurtures site, its a well known seizer. Seems like most people use it in HP because of that.

I soap with my oils/lye at different temps all the time, it doesn't cause any issues.

 

[reinbeau]

Thank you, IrishLass. Did you see the first part of my post? I edited it and asked "ETA Just so I understand this properly, you're meaning that you'd take (for simplicity's sake) 8 ounces of lye and put it into 16 oz. of water - or a pound of lye into two pounds of water - correct? That's the 50% solution? " - that's the last piece of the puzzle for me

 

[IrishLass]

Thank you, IrishLass. Did you see the first part of my post? I edited it and asked "ETA Just so I understand this properly, you're meaning that you'd take (for simplicity's sake) 8 ounces of lye and put it into 16 oz. of water - or a pound of lye into two pounds of water - correct? That's the 50% solution? " - that's the last piece of the puzzle for me

Woops! I totally missed the first part of your post. lol To answer your question, nope- what you want to do is to mix equal parts of water and lye (by weight). So, if you have 8 oz. of lye, you will want to mix it into 8 oz. of water. In other words, 50% of your solution is lye, and the other 50% is water.

Here is an older thread where I describe how I go about making it, and which also goes on to answer some questions: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=26634

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask!


IrishLass

 

[commoncenz]

I just checked the reviews of your FO on nurtures site, its a well known seizer. Seems like most people use it in HP because of that.

I soap with my oils/lye at different temps all the time, it doesn't cause any issues.

Holy Smokes ... I thought I read the reviews on that before I ordered it. Wouldn't have bought it if I had read that.

Thanks for the information. To the back of the drawer with that FO til I figure out what to do with it.

 

[TeresaT]

ETA Just so I understand this properly, you're meaning that you'd take (for simplicity's sake) 8 ounces of lye and put it into 16 oz. of water - or a pound of lye into two pounds of water - correct? That's the 50% solution?

This is the first time anyone has explained masterbatching in a way I could understand it. I'm still not certain I'd do it, but thank you!! What would you store it in?

Not exactly. To get a 50% lye solution you mix equal parts NaOH and water. (1:1 ratio). It is one half sodium hydroxide and one half water. It's 50% lye. The 50% water is not stated because it is "understood." In your sample, by mixing 8 oz NaOH and 16 oz water, you would have actually made a 25% solution: you mixed one part lye to two parts water (1:2 lye:water). I believe if you are going to master batch your lye solution, you want to do it at a 1:1 ratio. You can always dilute the solution to make it weaker. It's a bit more difficult to increase the strength of your solution. I KNOW all of this stuff theoretically. I just failed to actually do it when I made my soap. My recipe calls for 8.64 oz water and 4.26 oz lye. That's a total weight of 12.9 oz. I need to weigh out 8.52 oz 50% lye solution and 4.38 oz water. That will make the 12.9 oz I need.
As far as storing it, a plastic bottle with a 2 or 5 in the recycle triangle on the bottom is safe. Make sure it has a tight fitting lid. From what I've been reading, some people use their old laundry detergent bottles. I am using an old vinegar bottle. I made the mistake of washing it with soap and had residue in my solution. I have since been told to only rinse it with water to get all of the vinegar out then give it a final rinse with distilled water.

This mistake has been a good learning experience for me. As frustrating and as aggravating as it was, I'm glad it happened. It has definitely reinforced the correct way of using and measuring master batched lye in my mind. I don't think I will ever make this mistake again. It has taught me to check for evaporation before pouring into the bottle to store it. It's taught me to just rinse my bottles and containers instead of washing them and to use distilled water as well. And finally, it's taught me not to use so much water when rebatching.

Don't be afraid to master batch. If you mess up, you can't do it any worse than I have! Master batching is a time saver. And messing things up is your best method of learning. Someone has it as their signature on this forum. "You know that thing you just did? Don't do it again."

 

[MorpheusPA]

In your sample, by mixing 8 oz NaOH and 16 oz water, you would have actually made a 25% solution: you mixed one part lye to two parts water (1:2 lye:water).

33%. Which would be another bad mistake to make in a recipe.

A 25% solution would be 1:3, or one quarter of the solution is lye.

 

[gigisiguenza]

I'm so lost on this topic geez. I would like to master batch my lye, but I can't follow how you use the 50% solution in a recipe later. You made my head hurt LOL

 

[TeresaT]

33%. Which would be another bad mistake to make in a recipe.

A 25% solution would be 1:3, or one quarter of the solution is lye.

And there I go again, proving I suck at math. Thanks for the correction Morph!

Wait a minute. 1:2 is 33%? OK. I see that now, there are three parts, 1 is lye 2 are water. I get it. If I master batched all of my lye solutions at 33% AND I soaped at 33% (which I do, by the way, soap at 33% that is). Then I could just add the lye and water in the recipe together and pour that weigh out of my bottle, couldn't I? If I had a 1:2 master batch, I could have just poured out 12.9 oz and have been done with it. Oh. My. Gosh. :-o

 

[CaraBou]

Wait a minute. 1:2 is 33%? OK. I see that now, there are three parts, 1 is lye 2 are water. I get it. If I master batched all of my lye solutions at 33% AND I soaped at 33% (which I do, by the way, soap at 33% that is). Then I could just add the lye and water in the recipe together and pour that weigh out of my bottle, couldn't I? If I had a 1:2 master batch, I could have just poured out 12.9 oz and have been done with it. Oh. My. Gosh. :-o

Yep, that's correct. Now you know what to do next time. See, don't be afraid!

 

[MorpheusPA]

And there I go again, proving I suck at math. Thanks for the correction Morph!

Wait a minute. 1:2 is 33%? OK. I see that now, there are three parts, 1 is lye 2 are water. I get it. If I master batched all of my lye solutions at 33% AND I soaped at 33% (which I do, by the way, soap at 33% that is). Then I could just add the lye and water in the recipe together and pour that weigh out of my bottle, couldn't I? If I had a 1:2 master batch, I could have just poured out 12.9 oz and have been done with it. Oh. My. Gosh. :-o

Assuming everything's measured by weight (which we usually do), yep!

Enter it into SoapCalc as 33.333%, though, not 33%. Those extra decimals matter.

Or if you use a 2:1 water:lye ratio, then it works out exactly the way you'd think it would.

So yes, if you master batch at 2:1 and use it at 2:1 (or 33.3333%), the sum weight of water plus lye will exactly match your weight from your masterbatched lye container.

 

[reinbeau]

I can't read any more. IrishLass's explanation was simple to follow, I'm sticking with that!!

 

[kumudini]

Here is my math for using master batch lye. I'm in a way like IL, I need to simplify something down to a very simple equation so I could talk about it even in sleep and be correct.
1 part lye and 1 part water= 50% lye solution ( I saved the 2 lb HDPE bottles the lye came in, that's what I stored the lye solution in.)
Let's say the dry lye weight from lye calculator is X

Full water(38%). 2 * X of 50% lye solution
+ (soap calc water amount- X) of water

40% lye concentration. 2 * X of 50% lye solution
+ X/2 of water.

33% lye concentration. 2 * X of 50% lye solution
+ X water

25% lye concentration. 2 * X of 50% lye solution
+2 * X of water.

If I want to add citric acid, then I add the additional lye amount to the X with rest of the calculations remaining the same.

 

[TeresaT]

I can't read any more. IrishLass's explanation was simple to follow, I'm sticking with that!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! For some strange reason, I've taken a shine to soaping at 33% lye concentration. I have NO IDEA WHY. The water percent is significantly lower than the full water, maybe that's it? So, if I can actually make a lye solution the is the strength I always soap at, it will be much easier to do it that way rather than at 50% and play with numbers again. I made my solution at 50% because that's what the Soaping 101 lady "told" me to do. (Yeah. She explained via telepathic link. ROFLMBO) How was I to know there were different options? :crazy:

Education...it's a dangerous thing.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I masterbatch at 33% if that makes you feel any better!

 

[TeresaT]

I masterbatch at 33% if that makes you feel any better!

YES!! Do you use it straight from the bottle or do you dilute it? The concept of not having to dilute it is veeeeeeeerrrrrry intriguing. This mistake is turning out to be the best thing that's happened. I'm learning soooo much because of this screw up! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[galaxyMLP]

I use it straight. No dilution at all. I do not add citric acid although I think I'm going to start. I'm probably going to make up a "stock" sodium citrate solution that is concentrated so I can just add it as an additive into the soap and not mess with my lye masterbatch.

I love how easy working with the 33% solution is. It is "pour and go".

 

[TeresaT]

If you figure out how to make your own sodium citrate, will you let me know? I'd like to do that, but haven't a clue how to do it. I know how much NaOH to use to convert how much CA, but how much liquid do I use and should that liquid be just plain old distilled water or something else? Then, do I just use sodium citrate as an additive or do I replace that amount of my liquid in the recipe? It's all a mystery.

 

[kumudini]

If you figure out how to make your own sodium citrate, will you let me know? I'd like to do that, but haven't a clue how to do it. I know how much NaOH to use to convert how much CA, but how much liquid do I use and should that liquid be just plain old distilled water or something else? Then, do I just use sodium citrate as an additive or do I replace that amount of my liquid in the recipe? It's all a mystery.

I'm answering this as I've also previously considered doing this. I will make it to be 10 grams citric acid per 30 grams of solution. So I would do 10 grams of citric acid and 6.25 grams of NaOH into 13.75 grams of water. If I have trouble dissolving it then I would add 10 more grams of water so the math would be 10 in 40. Then I could add 30 or 40 grams of solution ( whatever it ends up being) to every 1000 grams of oil to make it 1% or double the amount for 2%. Since my scale doesn't do decimals of a gram, I will just round up the values to nearest gram value. If I'm doing just 10 grams of CA, the rounding up or down could increase the SF value very slightly but on a much bigger batch, say 100grams CA, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[commoncenz]

Why not just use Sodium Citrate at 3% of oils? Then use a 2:1 dilution (liquid to SC). That way, you don't have to deal with figuring out how much extra lye to add to your master batch in order to convert the Citric Acid to Sodium Citrate in your soap batter. Just weigh out the SC, add it to the proper amount of liquid you've withheld from your lye mix and add to oils before adding lye mix.

As I think about it, maybe you could make a master batch of Sodium Citrate solution (2:1 ratio) and just weigh that out when soaping.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I will honestly probably make up the sodium citrate using citric acid and NaOH b/c I already have the citric acid and NaOH on hand but dont have the sodium citrate on hand.

I will probably boil off most (or all) of the water to create the sodium citrate salt. That way I dont have to adjust the dilution ect. every time I soap, just weight and go.

Its a sort of combination between V's post and Commoncenz's post.