Donee'
Well-Known Member
I agree
I have had just over 20 years in advertising and marketing - so I too can speak with conviction (and experience) about what the buyer wants.
Carry on being big mouthed - you have the experience to be big mouthed
I keep seeing and hearing this a lot...
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I have had just over 20 years in advertising and marketing - so I too can speak with conviction (and experience) about what the buyer wants.
Carry on being big mouthed - you have the experience to be big mouthed
Hendejm
Well-Known Member
And and example of an overcrowded industry - Sneakers or tennis shoes!
Nearly everyone wears sneakers. Additionally - most people are devoted to a particular brand. Why? Are they better? Maybe. Are they prettier? Maybe? Do they satisfy your desire to be more like what thst brand represents? Probably to Absolutely!
Take for example:
Nike - Just do it! Their brand identity is tied to their core mission statement: “To bring inspiration and innovation to every athlete in the world.” The company further states that everybody is an athlete.... “If you have a body, you are an athlete.”
They are appealing to the athlete in all of us. They know that many people look up to and admire athletes. People want to be like those athletes. We identify with the brand because of how it makes us feel. Ever wonder why there are som many Nike t-shirts out there? Branding! It tells everyone that we are an athlete. Even if you don’t know it - you are part of Nike’s brand.
Reebok - inspire and empower women. And/or - “Be more Human” Look at their spokespersons - Gal Godoy and Ariana Grande. The target customer can relate to the celebritity endorsement. The target customer wants to be like the celebrity - wear the same products as the celebrity. They want to connect their customer to the humanity and personality of life....it’s a big world - connect with each other by buying Reebok. Life is personal.
Every sneaker company has a point of view - a means to connect with their core customer. There is much more competition for sneakers than soap yet many sneaker companies survive. If the customer doesn’t connect with your message - you won’t sell sneakers or soap.
If we can assume that most sneakers meet the need of being at least “good quality” and many sneakers need the need of being “ great quality” - then why can both exist? The message and how well the company connects with the consumer is how they can be successful. There are lots of inner city kids that don’t have any money to speak of - but they have $150 sneakers. How can this be? It’s the message of hope, desire, envy, ability, etc. those sneakers represent all those things to the inner city kid.
Payless sells lots of BOGO sneakers - much lower price. How do they do it? Connecting with their customer. Fashion, price, quantity, value for dollar...these are things that are important to their core customer.
Both can survive - but only if you customer identifies with you and your product. Alienate the customer by having a celebrity spokesperson caught up in a scandal- then the customer doesn’t want to be like that company any longer...they find a different brand to align with their values, desires, wants,etc.
Alienate the customer by changing the brand - For example Coca Cola - you lose customers. They lost millions of dollars when they changed their formula. That formula was nearly -100 years old. Tradition, nostalgia, history....they discarded all the things that the customer related to - Coca Cola represents family values, happy times, good feelings. Change the product - and you have to rebuild all of the feelings that were cultivated over 100 years.
It ALL comes back to brand. You can be financially successful despite competition and price. If the consumer doesn’t connect with your brand - you cannot be financially successful. Chic fil a - another example of branding. They decided to stand out by taking a political position on a variety of subjects. That is part of their brand. They don’t market to the LGBT community - they market to traditional families and the traditional values that they represent. Right or wrong - doesn’t matter. They know who their customer is and they market only to them.
Nearly everyone wears sneakers. Additionally - most people are devoted to a particular brand. Why? Are they better? Maybe. Are they prettier? Maybe? Do they satisfy your desire to be more like what thst brand represents? Probably to Absolutely!
Take for example:
Nike - Just do it! Their brand identity is tied to their core mission statement: “To bring inspiration and innovation to every athlete in the world.” The company further states that everybody is an athlete.... “If you have a body, you are an athlete.”
They are appealing to the athlete in all of us. They know that many people look up to and admire athletes. People want to be like those athletes. We identify with the brand because of how it makes us feel. Ever wonder why there are som many Nike t-shirts out there? Branding! It tells everyone that we are an athlete. Even if you don’t know it - you are part of Nike’s brand.
Reebok - inspire and empower women. And/or - “Be more Human” Look at their spokespersons - Gal Godoy and Ariana Grande. The target customer can relate to the celebritity endorsement. The target customer wants to be like the celebrity - wear the same products as the celebrity. They want to connect their customer to the humanity and personality of life....it’s a big world - connect with each other by buying Reebok. Life is personal.
Every sneaker company has a point of view - a means to connect with their core customer. There is much more competition for sneakers than soap yet many sneaker companies survive. If the customer doesn’t connect with your message - you won’t sell sneakers or soap.
If we can assume that most sneakers meet the need of being at least “good quality” and many sneakers need the need of being “ great quality” - then why can both exist? The message and how well the company connects with the consumer is how they can be successful. There are lots of inner city kids that don’t have any money to speak of - but they have $150 sneakers. How can this be? It’s the message of hope, desire, envy, ability, etc. those sneakers represent all those things to the inner city kid.
Payless sells lots of BOGO sneakers - much lower price. How do they do it? Connecting with their customer. Fashion, price, quantity, value for dollar...these are things that are important to their core customer.
Both can survive - but only if you customer identifies with you and your product. Alienate the customer by having a celebrity spokesperson caught up in a scandal- then the customer doesn’t want to be like that company any longer...they find a different brand to align with their values, desires, wants,etc.
Alienate the customer by changing the brand - For example Coca Cola - you lose customers. They lost millions of dollars when they changed their formula. That formula was nearly -100 years old. Tradition, nostalgia, history....they discarded all the things that the customer related to - Coca Cola represents family values, happy times, good feelings. Change the product - and you have to rebuild all of the feelings that were cultivated over 100 years.
It ALL comes back to brand. You can be financially successful despite competition and price. If the consumer doesn’t connect with your brand - you cannot be financially successful. Chic fil a - another example of branding. They decided to stand out by taking a political position on a variety of subjects. That is part of their brand. They don’t market to the LGBT community - they market to traditional families and the traditional values that they represent. Right or wrong - doesn’t matter. They know who their customer is and they market only to them.
Donee'
Well-Known Member
You CAN make a very comfortable living making artisan soap / products.
Just dont follow everyone else to markets.
I had a food trailer at a market for several years and I can speak from experience - yes you can make money at markets but dont let that be all you target. Use your imagination and find other ways to sell your soap.
Will go open that thread now.
Hendejm
Well-Known Member
Respectfully - I am not wrong. Your product doesn’t bring them back. You do! Whether you realize it or not - they are buying you. You give them feature/benefits of your product. You give them product knowledge about your ingredients. You make them believe your have a superior product. You tell them why your soap is different from commercial “soaps”. You build trust with your customer through YOU and your brand. Remove you from the equation - no more brand. Change the product - no more trust in your brand. Stop selling at your craft fair - no more you and they will look for similar product that aligns with their needs. Your soap is not better than other many other well made handcrafted soaps. Your ingredients are not different from other soap makers. The difference is YOU and your brand. It’s what your customer travels 1.5 hours for ....they may not realize that - but that is a fact. Your product is not unique! They can buy it from many other sources. You and your brand are unique and that is what they are buying. You may think they are buying your soap because it’s unique properties - but that is a myth and a fallacy and downright untrue. But the PERCEPTION of its unique properties - that all comes back to you and your brand.
Your brand conveys everything about your soap. Your soap performs exactly the same as every other soap - it cleans. But everything else comes from your brand and your messaging.
A purse or pocketbook carries a wallet, lipstick, change purse, etc. Why then would someone spend $2500 on a Gucci purse that works EXACTLY the same way as at $10 purse? The brand!!!!!!!! Gucci represents quality, wealth, exclusive, status. The comsumee is buying the promise of those things. But at the end of the day - it holds things that are needed throughout your day. There is no functional difference between the two purses yet lots $2500 purses are sold each year. The branding is what makes it different-unique-desirable.
Donee'
Well-Known Member
Oh well - I see that my other thread topic has been deleted regarding selling your soap. Seems it belongs in the business section and I am not a member of that.
Maybe someone who is part of the business section can start that thread for the benefit of the new sellers.
Maybe someone who is part of the business section can start that thread for the benefit of the new sellers.
So very nice to hear a marketing person
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Hendejm
Well-Known Member
I don’t think that it’s right to delete valuable insight/discussions. Everyone has opinions and points of view - regardless of experience or length of time in this forum. All points of view are valid and worthy so long as they are respectful and professional. I hope this thread isn’t deleted because it had led the way to so much insight and valuable information that needs to be heard and shared.
I am a soaper - but also a business person. My experience working for Fortune 500 companies should be able to be heard. Working for the largest and most succcessful entertainment company in the world -The Walt DISNEY Company - one that is defined by its brand unlike any other company in the world - should be able to be shared. My experience does not come from soaping necessarily - but it can certainly be applied to the soaping industry.
Censoring us all demeans the true purpose of this forum - to collaborate, share experience, and learn.
Donee'
Well-Known Member
The b
EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID *points up*
But you are also selling a product that last the average of a month, plus it is an item that, while a necessity, handmade soap is not a necessity. The probable customer base out there is much smaller than the base of customers purchasing soap from Costco which is, likely, less than a dollar a bar. I keep records of sales in graph form and, I can positively say, when disposable income goes down, even due to gas prices going up, sales will fall. Handmade soap is not a necessary commodity it is more of a luxury, and trend. Trends tend to change over time.
Respectfully - I am not wrong, I respectfully disagree with your not being wrong. Like Shari (Shunt) mentioned, customers return for her product. I have many customers that will purchase only my soap, while it may have the ingredients of others it does not mean it is aged the same, same percentages etc etc. I have customers that purchase enough to last them long enough until I am at a show in their area. By doing shows within a 70 miles radius I connect with very large amount of potential customers. When they run out of product they know to email or text me. Again, handmade soap is Not a necessity, some cannot even use it
This is to supplement my retirement, and give me something I like to do, since I cannot travel due to life issues. Although I have crochet, I know they really only sell well in a hospital environment, so some markets I only put out a small sample of what I have. As far as the tennis shoe example I wear what brand does not cause excruciating pain in one of my feet. Could care less what brand it is. But today, with people who practically worship athletes, they think they have to have the shoes, that the big company with the huge advertising funds advertises on tv, radio, newspapers etc. Sadly most soapmakers do not have large marketing funds.
Respectfully - I am not wrong, I respectfully disagree with your not being wrong. Like Shari (Shunt) mentioned, customers return for her product. I have many customers that will purchase only my soap, while it may have the ingredients of others it does not mean it is aged the same, same percentages etc etc. I have customers that purchase enough to last them long enough until I am at a show in their area. By doing shows within a 70 miles radius I connect with very large amount of potential customers. When they run out of product they know to email or text me. Again, handmade soap is Not a necessity, some cannot even use it
This is to supplement my retirement, and give me something I like to do, since I cannot travel due to life issues. Although I have crochet, I know they really only sell well in a hospital environment, so some markets I only put out a small sample of what I have. As far as the tennis shoe example I wear what brand does not cause excruciating pain in one of my feet. Could care less what brand it is. But today, with people who practically worship athletes, they think they have to have the shoes, that the big company with the huge advertising funds advertises on tv, radio, newspapers etc. Sadly most soapmakers do not have large marketing funds.
Hendejm
Well-Known Member
cmzaha, we are saying virtually the same thing - just articulated differently!
Soap is a luxury, commodity, AND a trend. As a business owner - decide which you want to be. If you are a luxury soap maker - your brand needs to highlight that and attract that customer. If you are a commodity soap maker - hightlight the fact that your product is consisent, inexpensive, available anywhere. If you are a trend soap maker - follow color and style trends and market to trendy consumers.
I am sure that you can point to detailed records and as that sales go down in a bad economy. But if you are trying to sell the same product to the same customer in a different economic climate - I would assume your sales would go down. But if you changed your marketing strategy because your core customer changed - you would still sell soap. If, for example, economics conditions dictates that your customer cannot afford your luxury soap - you then highlight the longevity of you soaps - highlight the fact that your soap lasts twice as long (or whatever) and convey VALUE to your customer because that is now an important part of who she is. You change your message because your core customer changed. Make sense?
You say that I am wrong when saying your customers don’t buy soap because of you. Without YOU - they don’t know that you age your soap longer. Without YOU - the customer doesn’t know that you use higher percentages of a certain oil/butter. You are your brand. Remove YOU from the equation and there is nothing. Anyone can copy your recipe - copy your percentages - all of it. They can’t copy you and your brand. That is the only unique part of the equation.
If it weren’t for your brand (including you) - people wouldn’t look at your soap. They would pass it right by when shopping. They come back to you because you and your brand promise them that you have the best product (whether it’s true or not is irrelevant). They trust your brand to satisfy their need.
Some other brand may come along and poach that customer because they believe that the other brand will deliver their promise of satisfying their needs and wants. That is what happens in a down economy. Another brand that can offer the same guarantee of quality at a lower price and the customer believes that the other brand will satisfy their needs. That is the reason that you can qualify your statement that your sales go down in a tough economy. You didn’t change your business model even though your core customer changed. I hope you can understand that.
You don’t need a large marketing budget to have a successful brand. Grass roots marketing allows you to be successful on any budget. But if you are trying to market to EVERYONE - you will be unsuccessful. You need to identify your customer - and market and sell to them - not the entire population.
Your mentioned that you have a bad foot - and the most important thing to you in regards to sneakers is comfort! Of course you are going to be attracted to companies that promise comfort. You are probably not sensitive to price so long as your foot doesn’t hurt. You probably seek out brands that promise a very comfortable shoe. You probably don’t wear high heels because they don’t market to you. You are not their core customer. And regardless of the economy - you need comfortable shoes so I would imagine you would pay more for a comfortable shoe. The company that understands your need is going to get your business. And often - for people like you - you are going to be drawn to a particular shoe store that specializes in shoes for people like you - thus your loyalty to that shoe store. You are less loyal to a shoe brand and more loyal to that store because their brand speaks to you. If a miracle drug comes out and makes bad feet a thing of the past - that store owner and/or manufacturer has to change - because their core customer had changed and no longer need comfortable shoes. Terrible example - but I hope you get the point.
Hendejm, It's interesting what you say about sneakers. In our youth, when our feet and legs aren't/weren't so particular about comfort, maybe those things about brand loyalty and so forth are/were true. Not true at all anymore as we get older, at least not for me. Finding a pair of shoes (sneakers or any other kind of shoe for that matter) is all about comfort and being able to wear said shoe comfortably for the duration of its life. Durability matters, of course, as does utility, but without comfort, I won't wear the shoe at all. If I can't wear it comfortable for a good 8-12 hours long walkabout, I toss it.
Over the course of my many many years, I have found that some brands make a particular style that works well for me, but it never lasts. They ALWAYS stop making that model of shoe within about 5 years or so, and I have to start the search all over again. Currently I wear a brand of tennis shoe that I just happily stumbled upon while shopping a high-end shoe store while traveling. It is the most comfortable one I have ever worn and I sure do hope I can find it again when the time comes. But I have learned not to expect that.
I think over time, I have come to feel the same about soap. Besides that my skin has changed over the last several decades. What my skin liked when I was 20 is not what my skin likes now. So over time, I suspect that many consumers may change their choices of soap as well. When I was quite young I formed olfactory memories with Dial bar soap - we bathed with it while camping - that enticed me to buy Dial soap for several years just to bring back that memory. Eventually I switched to another brand because it was more readily available and I stuck to the same soap for several years.
Now, of course, since I make my own soap, I don't need to shop around for the perfect soap and develop a consumer/seller relationship with a particular brand. But if I were to sell, which I do not ever plan to do, I would try to incorporate some sort of olfactory component to my line because for me, fragrance carries memories.
Over the course of my many many years, I have found that some brands make a particular style that works well for me, but it never lasts. They ALWAYS stop making that model of shoe within about 5 years or so, and I have to start the search all over again. Currently I wear a brand of tennis shoe that I just happily stumbled upon while shopping a high-end shoe store while traveling. It is the most comfortable one I have ever worn and I sure do hope I can find it again when the time comes. But I have learned not to expect that.
I think over time, I have come to feel the same about soap. Besides that my skin has changed over the last several decades. What my skin liked when I was 20 is not what my skin likes now. So over time, I suspect that many consumers may change their choices of soap as well. When I was quite young I formed olfactory memories with Dial bar soap - we bathed with it while camping - that enticed me to buy Dial soap for several years just to bring back that memory. Eventually I switched to another brand because it was more readily available and I stuck to the same soap for several years.
Now, of course, since I make my own soap, I don't need to shop around for the perfect soap and develop a consumer/seller relationship with a particular brand. But if I were to sell, which I do not ever plan to do, I would try to incorporate some sort of olfactory component to my line because for me, fragrance carries memories.
The aforementioned thread was not deleted because of any disagreements about opinions that are held. Robust discussion is good! But here's the thing.....there are designated forums for discussions such as these. Starting such here in the Beginners section is in violation of stated SMF forum rules which were written for a reason. They are not suggestions, they are rules. We've let some of these go on because there has been some very good info for beginners to glean, but it's now gone way past that point, so I'm locking this and any other of the recently begun business-related threads that have been started outside of the designated area. If you want to continue this type of business discussion, it needs to be done in the Business Forum, provided your qualifications to post there are met. Feel free to take it into private conversation if you do not meet the requirements for the Business section yet, but all further publically posted threads of a business nature that are not started in the Business section as per Forum rules will be deleted.
Here's a reminder of the rules regarding such discussions:
Business forum rules (pay close attention to rule #3):
1) SMF encourages active membership and requires a minimum of (50) posts & (3) months membership before posting.
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Forum Rule # 19 - Supplemental Rules/Restrictions: Certain sub-forums having to do with sales and swaps located in our Business Forum section and in our Classifieds Forum section have special, supplemental rules and restrictions that must be followed and met before one is allowed to post in those specific areas. This is for the protection of our forum and our membership. The sub-forums of these 2 specific sections that contain supplemental rules will have a special Sicky located near the top of the first page, just below the Announcements area. Please open the Sticky up and read the rules/requirements before posting in that particular sub-forum. All posts made that don't meet the stated requirements for that specific sub-forum will be deleted.
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