HP, why you crumbly?

[Obsidian]

I made HP a couple days ago and its a crumbly mess.
95% lard
5% pumpkin oil for SF

full water (I should have used more) infused with chamomile
1 tsp honey
1/2 tsp bentonite clay (for EO anchor)
2% sodium lactate (maybe a bad idea with lard?)
orange EO

all additives added to the oils except SF oil and EO

Even though I used SL, this batch never really had any fluidity, it was more like lumpy applesauce. I figured it would thin out some once I added the SF and EO which it did but it seemed weird and waxy. It also took a lot longer to cook to no zap then any other HP I've done.

It was very hot when I molded but the outside was dry and it wasn't sticking to itself well at all. I was way thicker then any other HP I've made, used my hand to smoosh it in the mold.

Once I unmolded it, chunks started to drop off and when I cut, more broke off and there is quite a lot of cracks in the soap even though it was soft when I cut.

I'm afraid it will just break up when I go to use it so I really think I need to rebatch with much more liquid. My question is what went wrong? I've never HP that much lard before, maybe its not a good option for HP? Should I thrown in a couple castile bars to help the texture?

 

[coffeetime]

Umm, what's your superfat again? What you wrote above has 0 SF.

 

[Obsidian]

5% SF, the soap is completely zap free. Its in the crock pot now, using beer to rebatch. I was able to crumble it by hand, it was in weird thin layers like a pastry.

 

[coffeetime]

Ok I must have misunderstood what you wrote. So 95% lard, 5% pumpkin oil, and another 5% pumpkin for superfat?

 

[Obsidian]

No, 95% lard, 5% pumpkin. Set the SF on soapcalc to 5% and held back the pumpkin oil till after the cook. Lye isn't the issue here, its crumbly for a different reason.

 

[coffeetime]

Got it.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Aye, if anything, from the process you posted, you have more than 5% SF so lye really isn't the issue.

How long did it cook for in the end?

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[Obsidian]

It cooked for about three hours on low before it stopped zapping. Its been rebatched and molded, I think I used way too much beer but at least it won't be crumbly now lol. Just another example of why I don't like HP much.

 

[hmlove1218]

If you cooked it for 3 hours you may have over cooked it. Just trying to understand here, when you say you set the soapcalc SF to 5% was that includong the pumpkin seed oil?

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, that included the pumpkin seed oil. I only cooked it until it stopped zapping. Normally I cook on high and it only takes 30 minutes or so, this time I tried to cook on low and it took forever. It didn't really seem over cooked though, no dried bits at all.

Thats why this is so weird. Its was lumpy but soft, loose but waxy/dry only on the surface. I'm going to chalk it up to lard setting up quickly and not using quite enough water for HP.

 

[biarine]

I used HP a lot but sometimes I encounter a brittle soap but not crumbly. I never cook mine for 3 hours, I use medium setting for 1 to 11/2 hours max.

 

[reinbeau]

I have never had to cook any soap for 3 hours. I think it was overcooked. How were you testing it?

 

[MagicalMysterySoap]

Yeah 3 hours is way long. I have hp 100% lard soap and didn't have any issues just had to cut sooner because it gets hard fast. I cook on low till 1/3 of the batter has gelled then turn it off and the remaining heat will gel the rest.

 

[cmzaha]

Umm, what's your superfat again? What you wrote above has 0 SF.

0 superfat would not cause it. I am now confused. If you held out the pumpkin until after gel you would have a lye excess unless I am missing something here. Most of the saponification takes place in hp during cooking and gel but you mentioned adding the pumpkin after cooking. Three hours is way to long to have to cook hp soap. Mine is usually done in 30 - 45 min. Maybe I read something wrong

 

[Obsidian]

Superfat wasn't set at 0, it was set at 5%. I simply held the 5% back until after cook so I could make sure the pumpkin was the SF oil.

I generally only cook 30 minutes or so too but this this batch didn't actually start to fold over until well past the 2 hour mark. I know 3 hours is excessive but trust me, I molded it as soon as it passed zap.

 

[reinbeau]

Superfat wasn't set at 0, it was set at 5%. I simply held the 5% back until after cook so I could make sure the pumpkin was the SF oil.

I generally only cook 30 minutes or so too but this this batch didn't actually start to fold over until well past the 2 hour mark. I know 3 hours is excessive but trust me, I molded it as soon as it passed zap.

But that means you calculated the pumpkin oil into the mix, but took it out - so the was heavy because saponification was finished - and then you added in the pumpkin oil.

You can set your SF to 5% and just add the oils all in together. What I do is set it to 0%, and then calculate the SF for whatever I want it to be (usually 6-8 %), and add in my selected oil as the SF.

There are more complicated methods to figure the SF so your batch amount is precisely what you want it to be - a full 4 pound (of oils) loaf, for example - but I don't care if it's 67 ounces instead of 64.

 

[Obsidian]

OMG, why can't people understand the way I figure SF? The recipe was set to 5% on soapcal, I withheld 5% of my oils so what got cooked was 0% SF but once I added the oil after the cook, it went back to 5% SF. The problem IS NOT the lye, the batter was not zappy before I added in the SF oil.

Since everyone can't stop harping about the lye and superfat, why don't you just stop posting, you aren't helping.

 

[coffeetime]

Sorry.

 

[shunt2011]

Maybe I'm the odd man/gal out here but I totally get how obsidian did her calculations. I do mine the same way. I'm thinking maybe it was just a fluke with it taking so long to cook. I would give it another try and keep my fingers crossed it works out for you. It's so frustrating when something doesn't go the way you've planned it.