HP soapers.....a question for you

[Holly8991]

I was bored at work today and started watching Youtube videos. I saw a lady (I think from Nova Scotia?) do HP. Now I also do HP but not like this....

She heats up her oils to like 190 degrees in the crockpot then makes her lye mixture.
Then takes the crockpot insert out of the base and mixes in the lye.
Then puts seran type wrap over the top and covers with the clear lid.

Ok...I am sorta following at this point but wondering when she will put it back on the base to cook.
She never does! After a few minutes it starts to volcano but she whisks it down etc. It takes about a total of 40 min or so to complete everything.

It is all done off the base! I have never done this. I always keep the heat on at least low and let it do its thing.

So.....has anyone used this method? I am very curious about it but don't want to waste a bunch of ingredients to try it out yet.

 

[cmzaha]

Nope, I am not about to play with soap volcano's. I had one once by mistake and that was enough for me. My cupboards did not appreciate it either

 

[Holly8991]

Well I guess I should clarify...it was a pre-volcano. It just puffed up really quick but she was all on top of it and it was no issue.

 

[psfred]

I've done this and variations. It works if you use some sugar (which she doesn't mention) or oils that heat a lot during saponification, otherwise it will not volcano, at least not for me, and I had to add heat.

It is fast, but you need some extra water and yogurt at the end to make it fluid -- as all HP soaps go, it can get pretty stiff if you don't have enough water and glycerine/yogurt in it.

I've made several batches this way, takes 30 or 40 min from melting fats to dumping it in the mold, and I can cut three hours later most of the time.

Not much ability for creativity though, it's glop and flatten when it's time to mold. You might get in an ITP swirl if it's simple or rapidly split, color, and spoon into a mold, but mine are usually far to stiff to do anything fancy.

Soap turns out fine, just more texture than CP.

 

[Richard Perrine]

Hi Holly. I've been itching to get into counter top HP using the method you've seen. I've seen enough to realize that there are advantages and we've all seen some pretty amazing, beautiful bars made from the process. One of my concerns has been that it may be too thick for more fine-detailed molds, but I have seen some pretty darn fluid mixtures and could easily work with finer molds. I need to practice small scale and check it out. MY BIGGEST issue with the process and making the batter fluid is that everyone seems to use yogurt (w/ or w/0 glyerine) to make it smooth, fluid. I am looking for a way to reproduce this fluidity w/o using a dairy product. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[msunnerstood]

I do HP and My soap volcanoes every time. Sometimes once but up to 3 times. It always stirs down. Its how I know the lye is doing its job. I also soap around 190. I dont remove mine from the heat though

 

[msunnerstood]

Hi Holly. I've been itching to get into counter top HP using the method you've seen. I've seen enough to realize that there are advantages and we've all seen some pretty amazing, beautiful bars made from the process. One of my concerns has been that it may be too thick for more fine-detailed molds, but I have seen some pretty darn fluid mixtures and could easily work with finer molds. I need to practice small scale and check it out. MY BIGGEST issue with the process and making the batter fluid is that everyone seems to use yogurt (w/ or w/0 glyerine) to make it smooth, fluid. I am looking for a way to reproduce this fluidity w/o using a dairy product. Anyone have any ideas?

I use either Plain yogurt or sour cream and on occasion, buttermilk. I add it after the cook and wait a few minutes before adding scent and colors. I use about 1 oz ppo.

 

[psfred]

You can use sodium lactate solution in place of the dairy. Plain hot water will also add fluidity, but if you add very much the soap will shrink quite a bit during cure, and it NEVER shrinks evenly....

 

[Holly8991]

I bought some yogurt today so I am going to try this tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[psfred]

Add a teaspoon of sugar to your lye, and mix the oil and lye as soon as the lye solution is clear. I'd also ignore the phone if it rings -- you simply cannot leave this process at all until it stops volcanoing!

 

[Richard Perrine]

I use either Plain yogurt or sour cream and on occasion, buttermilk. I add it after the cook and wait a few minutes before adding scent and colors. I use about 1 oz ppo.

Thank you, but hoping for a non-dairy solution.

 

[Richard Perrine]

You can use sodium lactate solution in place of the dairy. Plain hot water will also add fluidity, but if you add very much the soap will shrink quite a bit during cure, and it NEVER shrinks evenly....

Thank you. Interesting. I often hear the use of sodium lactate for 'hardening' bars, and did come across it being used for helping with more fluid batter, but I am too uncertain with the mixed messages whether to explore this. I will do a little more research and see if there is guidance on using SL INSTEAD of dairy products. How about adding glycerine? Could I discount the amount of water from the lye solution and add glyercine with the SL to help?

 

[Richard Perrine]

Wowsa! Just found this:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2016/11/fluid-hot-process-soap-tutorial-recipe-fluid-hp/

So helpful! Fluid HP soap, here I come! I would also like to add that the dairy components (yogurt, buttermilk, etc.) contain lactic acid and when it reacts with the lye, becomes sodium lactate. Cool and making greater sense why sodium lactate is a good substitute for the dairy ingredients.

 

[earlene]

You are better off using SL. Too much glycerine added to soap can create a spongy soap that may never harden in your lifetime. I am not exaggerating. I used too much glycerine in a soap a couple of years ago and after cutting kept a few bars to watch what happens. The rest went to salting out. The 2 yo bars don't feel any less spongy than they did the day I cut them.

I have never had spongy soap from SL. I'm not sure what the mixed message is? The fact that it helps harden the bar, but also provides a little more fluidity in HP soap? It does help harden the bar, making it possible to un-mold sooner. It does increase fluidity in HP soap, but you don't really add a whole lot of it anyway, so it evaporates off if you keep the soap at high temps for too long after you add it. It's the Sodium in the sodium lactate that contributes to the hardening of the soap.

 

[Richard Perrine]

You are better off using SL. Too much glycerine added to soap can create a spongy soap that may never harden in your lifetime. I am not exaggerating. I used too much glycerine in a soap a couple of years ago and after cutting kept a few bars to watch what happens. The rest went to salting out. The 2 yo bars don't feel any less spongy than they did the day I cut them.

I have never had spongy soap from SL. I'm not sure what the mixed message is? The fact that it helps harden the bar, but also provides a little more fluidity in HP soap? It does help harden the bar, making it possible to un-mold sooner. It does increase fluidity in HP soap, but you don't really add a whole lot of it anyway, so it evaporates off if you keep the soap at high temps for too long after you add it. It's the Sodium in the sodium lactate that contributes to the hardening of the soap.

Thank you. Yeah, I find it interesting that it helps the soap to set quicker for un-molding AND helps the batter to remain more fluid. I saw a tutorial where someone was also adding a little bit of glycerin with the yogurt. I need to go back and discern what the exact purpose of the glycerin was in this case. Thank you again.

 

[szaza]

Hi Holly. I've been itching to get into counter top HP using the method you've seen. I've seen enough to realize that there are advantages and we've all seen some pretty amazing, beautiful bars made from the process. One of my concerns has been that it may be too thick for more fine-detailed molds, but I have seen some pretty darn fluid mixtures and could easily work with finer molds. I need to practice small scale and check it out. MY BIGGEST issue with the process and making the batter fluid is that everyone seems to use yogurt (w/ or w/0 glyerine) to make it smooth, fluid. I am looking for a way to reproduce this fluidity w/o using a dairy product. Anyone have any ideas?

Until now, most of my soaps have been HP. I've used different kinds of yoghurt including soy yoghurt, so you could always try that I think as long as the yoghurt has been fermented with cultures you'll be fine. I've never used glycerin or SL, so can't comment about that.
If you want a more liquid batter, you can keep more of your liquid aside to add after the cook (always make sure you have enough liquid to dissolve your lye though!). The cure time will be longer and the risk of shrinking/warping will increase if you add more liquid after cook, so it's a balance you have to find (I have some nice concave round soaps) For a liquid batter it's also useful to try not to lose too much liquid during gel/cook. I generally use my oven at 70-80C (158-176F)
I think the advantage of the countertop HP is that it will go through gel quicker if you design the recipe to gel/volcanoe easily. It reminds me a bit of the HP extreme by Sharon Johnson, without the risk of murdering your SB. I'll add a link to a discussion about the technique on this forum It does seem like you really need to adjust your recipe to make it work. My SB is very sensitive, so I never dared try HP extreme, but this countertop HP sounds interesting..
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sharon-johnson-hp-method.55609/

 

[lsg]

Adding instant powdered milk at the end of the cook also makes the soap more fluid. It has to been the "instant" powdered milk or you will have lumps.
https://pvsoap.com/re-batch-or-hand-milled-soap/

 

[Richard Perrine]

@lsg. Thank you, but looking for non-dairy options. I have friends/family who are vegan.

 

[Richard Perrine]

Until now, most of my soaps have been HP. I've used different kinds of yoghurt including soy yoghurt, so you could always try that I think as long as the yoghurt has been fermented with cultures you'll be fine. I've never used glycerin or SL, so can't comment about that.
If you want a more liquid batter, you can keep more of your liquid aside to add after the cook (always make sure you have enough liquid to dissolve your lye though!). The cure time will be longer and the risk of shrinking/warping will increase if you add more liquid after cook, so it's a balance you have to find (I have some nice concave round soaps) For a liquid batter it's also useful to try not to lose too much liquid during gel/cook. I generally use my oven at 70-80C (158-176F)
I think the advantage of the countertop HP is that it will go through gel quicker if you design the recipe to gel/volcanoe easily. It reminds me a bit of the HP extreme by Sharon Johnson, without the risk of murdering your SB. I'll add a link to a discussion about the technique on this forum It does seem like you really need to adjust your recipe to make it work. My SB is very sensitive, so I never dared try HP extreme, but this countertop HP sounds interesting..
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sharon-johnson-hp-method.55609/

Thank you. Interesting. I did not consider non-dairy yogurts made of soy may also have the same effect as long as they have bacterial cultures that produce lactic acid. I will investigate. Thank you.

 

[szaza]

I bought some yogurt today so I am going to try this tomorrow and see what happens.

Let us know how it goes! Sure sounds like an interesting way to HP and would be nice to cut down the time it takes to go through gel!