HP soap, fragrance faded with time

[salute2015]

Hello,
I am new to soap making. I had a few failures because I completely ignored recipes, but few last batches were very good. I make hot process soap.
My problem is fragrance. I added about 4-6% of essential oils (palmarosa, patchouli, lavender, don't remember exact combination. One batch had only eucalyptus oils) None of my batches are fragrant now, after two months drying on the shelves.
Before adding eos I checked if soap is cooked with phenolpthalein, and it wasn't pink, it was transparent.
Could it be that saponification can still be in progress even if phenolpthalein shows it's not?
Should I add more eos?

hope someone knows...
great community here, glad to be here.
thank you,
Elena

 

[TeresaT]

At what temperature are you adding the EOs into the batch? If you are adding them hotter than their "flash point" you are just burning off all of the scent. I know fragrance oils usually list their flash points on the bottles. If the flash point is 135 degrees, then you have to let your soap cool off to less than 135 degrees to use it. If you don't then the scent will burn off and you've just wasted your fragrance oil. I don't know if EOs have flash points listed.

 

[earlene]

This is a pretty good article that talks about how essential oils are affected by the saponification process as well as temperature: http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/using-essential-oils-in-soapmaking/

It might help.

 

[salute2015]

sorry, I forgot to mention, that oils were added when soap cooled down, I checked temperature with my fingers - the soap is for my family.
I thought I will smell my soaps in my bathroom, but no, I cannot smell much even close to my nose

 

[TeresaT]

A lot of times, the fragrance comes back when you use the soap. I have a couple of soaps that you can't smell, but when you actually use them, they make the whole bathroom smell nice.

 

[Beans]

A lot of times, the fragrance comes back when you use the soap. I have a couple of soaps that you can't smell, but when you actually use them, they make the whole bathroom smell nice.

That gives me some hope. :? I have a few that have no smell at all.

 

[salute2015]

thank you all. good article

 

[Arimara]

At what temperature are you adding the EOs into the batch? If you are adding them hotter than their "flash point" you are just burning off all of the scent. I know fragrance oils usually list their flash points on the bottles. If the flash point is 135 degrees, then you have to let your soap cool off to less than 135 degrees to use it. If you don't then the scent will burn off and you've just wasted your fragrance oil. I don't know if EOs have flash points listed.

They should. your soap should be cooler than 165F for many of them and 140F for citrus, unless I'm confusing something. Flashpoints have been lower than 200F when I last checked for some EOs.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I would just like to point out to everyone that what you are saying about flashpoints is very mistaken. The only use for flashpoints in soaping is to determine whether an EO/FO can ship by air or not.

The flashpoint is a number that comes from following a standardized procedure for testing liquids, but apart from that procedure the number doesn't have any intrinsic meaning. It's only useful to roughly compare the flammability of one liquid versus another.

Nothing remotely special happens at the flashpoint temperature. The liquid doesn't go pooft into the air or anything. Nothing happens at all at that temperature. Whether you are above or below the flashpoint doesn't matter in the least.

 

[lenarenee]

I'm wondering about the quality of the essentials oils, what brand are they?

 

[lizard1232]

I'm sorry, but what do you mean when you exactly when you say you check the temperature with your finger...?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I imagine that they shove a pinky in to the cooling soap and if it is feeling cold enough, the scent is added

 

[salute2015]

actually I wasn't necessarily checking temperature. I was more concerned about ph, checking it few times with phenolpthalein, when it was clear, I already saw that soap is not hot, so I dipped my finger in it. lol
it was warm and I added eos.

maybe I had to mix eos with some oil before adding to the soap?
as for my eo, they mostly are from New Direction Aromatic, some from SaffireBlue, I am in Canada
my thoughts are that some oils are simply not long lasting...
and another thing, I am using those soaps now, but unfortunately no, they do not smell anymore. Before they did and it was nice...

 

[Susie]

Some EOs are simply faders. They go away over time. Mixing them with oil won't help. You will learn over time which ones stick, and which ones don't. By the way, phenolpthalein is a fairly useless test of pH on soap. Zap test if you are unsure. However, I would give it a couple of days before zap testing HP, as the EOs are going to be fairly strong at first.

You do give the soap time to cure, right?

 

[Arimara]

Some EOs are simply faders. They go away over time. Mixing them with oil won't help. You will learn over time which ones stick, and which ones don't. By the way, phenolpthalein is a fairly useless test of pH on soap. Zap test if you are unsure. However, I would give it a couple of days before zap testing HP, as the EOs are going to be fairly strong at first.

You do give the soap time to cure, right?

That's the truth. I put in .5oz of peppermint EO in my salt bar and the scent faded quite a bit. it's still cooling to use so no complaints.

 

[Steve85569]

This is why I switched to FO's for most of my soaps. By the time I put enough EO's into a batch for them to stick well I have made my hobby cost prohibitive. And besides some Fo's are real nice smelling and stick very very well.

 

[kchaystack]

actually I wasn't necessarily checking temperature. I was more concerned about ph, checking it few times with phenolpthalein, when it was clear, I already saw that soap is not hot, so I dipped my finger in it. lol
it was warm and I added eos.

No one has mentioned this right now, but the pH of your soap really is not an issue. And those drops are worthless for determining if your soap is safe.

Your soap is going to have a pH anywhere from 9 to 12 or so. The pH will drop some as the soap cures, but it probably won't go below 9.

If you want to check to see if there is excess lye, you need to do a zap test. This is where you bring a small amount of soap to the tip of your tongue and see if you get a feeling like an electric jolt. if you do - then it has lye left and you need to cook longer.

 

[TeresaT]

I would just like to point out to everyone that what you are saying about flashpoints is very mistaken. The only use for flashpoints in soaping is to determine whether an EO/FO can ship by air or not.

The flashpoint is a number that comes from following a standardized procedure for testing liquids, but apart from that procedure the number doesn't have any intrinsic meaning. It's only useful to roughly compare the flammability of one liquid versus another.

Nothing remotely special happens at the flashpoint temperature. The liquid doesn't go pooft into the air or anything. Nothing happens at all at that temperature. Whether you are above or below the flashpoint doesn't matter in the least.

Another myth debunked. Thank you Jamie Hyneman.

 

[lenarenee]

actually I wasn't necessarily checking temperature. I was more concerned about ph, checking it few times with phenolpthalein, when it was clear, I already saw that soap is not hot, so I dipped my finger in it. lol
it was warm and I added eos.

maybe I had to mix eos with some oil before adding to the soap?
as for my eo, they mostly are from New Direction Aromatic, some from SaffireBlue, I am in Canada
my thoughts are that some oils are simply not long lasting...
and another thing, I am using those soaps now, but unfortunately no, they do not smell anymore. Before they did and it was nice...

I've found New Direction eo's to be good quality. Other possibilities are simply not adding enough eo's for your amount of soap. Did you use eo's, or hydrosols or absolutes?