How to fix this recipe?

[Jaques]

Hey y'all I ran this recipe through SoapCalc and some of the numbers I'm getting back don't look right. What can I do to fix this recipe? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm going for a 2% Super Fat.

*Beef Tallow - 56.77 oz (55%)
*Olive Oil - 20.64 oz (20%)
*Coconut Oil (76 deg) - 10.32 oz (10%)
*Beeswax - 5.16 oz (5%)
*Pine Tar - 10.32 oz (10%)
*Water - 36.74 oz
*Lye (NaOH) - 13.3 oz
*Pine Essential Oil - 90 Grams

 

[artemis]

Which numbers didn't look right?

 

[AliOop]

Hi there, I agree with @artemis - what numbers are troubling you? I ran it through the calc and it looks like you have a 2% SF and 25% lye concentration (or 38% water as percent of oils).

Is it ok to share what troubles me when I look at this?

1. That is a yuge recipe - about 6.5 lbs!! If you've never made a particular soap recipe before, best practice is to make 1-2lb test batch, to make sure you like it, and to keep you from wasting lots of ingredients. Between the pine tar and the beeswax, this recipe in particular has lots that could go wrong, including so much acceleration that you will be lucky to get that big bucket o' batter thoroughly mixed before some of it seizes - leaving you with lye-heavy areas of soap.

2. Why so much beeswax? Tallow makes a very hard bar already, even with pine tar. I make a tallow-pine-tar bar with zero beeswax and it is plenty hard enough. Using 1-2% beeswax is more than enough for most soap recipes; 5% is likely to create a plastic-y feel, and will seriously dampen the very limited bubbles in your original recipe. In other words, this recipe isn't going to lather easily at all.

3. Why so much water? Are you planning to hot process this? If not, and if you do lower or eliminate the beeswax, consider changing your lye setting from water as percent of oils to lye concentration and set it to 30% for CP. I'd normally recommend 33%, but a little more water for this recipe isn't a bad idea. If you are doing HP, or you decide to keep all that beeswax (but please don't), then your water setting is good.

4. Are you sure about the pine essential oil? PineSol has ruined that for most of us. Instead, most folks use fir needle EO if they want their soap to smell like a walk in the forest, rather freshly cleaned toilets.

5. The recipe as you wrote it is very low on bubbles, and will probably be even worse than what the calculator shows due to all that beeswax. Adding some form of dissolved sugar or dual lye would help; it won't change the calculator numbers, but it will help.

EDIT: You asked what to do to fix it; here is my suggestion:

55% Tallow
20% Olive oil
15% Coconut oil
10% Pine tar

2% SF
2% (of oil weight) white sugar, dissolved in some of your batch water before adding NaOH
25% lye concentration for HP; 30% for CP
3% (of oils) Fir Needle EO
Make 1-2 lbs and see what you think

 

[Jaques]

Which numbers didn't look right?

The main thing I was concerned about was the INS being below the given range on SoapCalc, as I've heard that can make a softer bar that won't lather correctly.

Hi there, I agree with @artemis - what numbers are troubling you? I ran it through the calc and it looks like you have a 2% SF and 25% lye concentration (or 38% water as percent of oils).

Is it ok to share what troubles me when I look at this?

1. That is a yuge recipe - about 6.5 lbs!! If you've never made a particular soap recipe before, best practice is to make 1-2lb test batch, to make sure you like it, and to keep you from wasting lots of ingredients. Between the pine tar and the beeswax, this recipe in particular has lots that could go wrong, including so much acceleration that you will be lucky to get that big bucket o' batter thoroughly mixed before some of it seizes - leaving you with lye-heavy areas of soap.

2. Why so much beeswax? Tallow makes a very hard bar already, even with pine tar. I make a tallow-pine-tar bar with zero beeswax and it is plenty hard enough. Using 1-2% beeswax is more than enough for most soap recipes; 5% is likely to create a plastic-y feel, and will seriously dampen the very limited bubbles in your original recipe. In other words, this recipe isn't going to lather easily at all.

3. Why so much water? Are you planning to hot process this? If not, and if you do lower or eliminate the beeswax, consider changing your lye setting from water as percent of oils to lye concentration and set it to 30% for CP. I'd normally recommend 33%, but a little more water for this recipe isn't a bad idea. If you are doing HP, or you decide to keep all that beeswax (but please don't), then your water setting is good.

4. Are you sure about the pine essential oil? PineSol has ruined that for most of us. Instead, most folks use fir needle EO if they want their soap to smell like a walk in the forest, rather freshly cleaned toilets.

5. The recipe as you wrote it is very low on bubbles, and will probably be even worse than what the calculator shows due to all that beeswax. Adding some form of dissolved sugar or dual lye would help; it won't change the calculator numbers, but it will help.

EDIT: You asked what to do to fix it; here is my suggestion:

55% Tallow
20% Olive oil
15% Coconut oil
10% Pine tar

2% SF
2% (of oil weight) white sugar, dissolved in some of your batch water before adding NaOH
25% lye concentration for HP; 30% for CP
3% (of oils) Fir Needle EO
Make 1-2 lbs and see what you think

Thank you for the advice! Your new recipe placed the numbers I was worried about (Lather, Cleansing, INS) within the normal range. The large recipe was mainly a product of trying to fill up the molds I already have, but I can see how that large a batch would be problematic. The beeswax was an attempt at balancing out the pine tar, but I'll definitely omit it if it's unnecessary. I was also a little confused about the water content, so that helps a lot. Thank you so much for the fir needle EO tip. I hadn't even thought about pine sol when I was thinking about fragrance notes, lol.

 

[AliOop]

Your new recipe placed the numbers I was worried about (Lather, Cleansing, INS) within the normal range.

Just remember that these ranges are somewhat arbitrary, and not necessarily an indication that you will actually like the soap.

Take the cleansing number, for instance. That number doesn't differentiate between the cleansing needs of a mechanic whose hands are covered in grease to be removed, and an office worker who does not want the soap to completely strip away the natural skin oils. In other words, the soap's cleansing power doesn't differentiate between "dirty" oils and natural ones.

Consider that 100% OO and 100% lard soaps have a 0 cleaning number, yet they are still soap, and they will still clean the skin. Maybe not the hands of a mechanic -- at least, not completely. But that's why we make them special mechanic soap (aka gardener's soap, blacksmith soap) that contains scrubby stuff like pumice, poppy seeds, ground nut shells, etc.

A large number of people buying handmade soap are looking for something that will not strip that much of the natural oil off their skin. Thus, an ideal cleansing number for lots of people is going to be at the very low end of the cleansing range. I try to stay between 12-14 myself. More than that leaves my skin dry, tight, irritated, and sometimes even flaky. But I make some soaps for others that have a cleansing number of 6. It's still great soap!

There is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that men's skin, and that of people in more humid or tropical climates, is more tolerant of higher cleansing numbers. You can also use superfat to some extent to offset the cleansing number. Superfat doesn't affect anything in the ranges that are displayed, so your cleansing number won't change - but you still have nice soap that is now no longer as stripping to the skin. Salt soaps made from 100% CO with extra high superfat are a great example of this. The cleansing number is off the charts, but the soap is wonderful after a long cure.

Thus, there are lots of things the calculator will not tell you, like how mild the soap may be due to the superfat, or how much more bubbly it may be due to non-oil ingredients like sugar, or dual lye. Also, handcrafted soap makers really don't need to worry about the INS number. That was developed by commercial soapmakers, and isn't that relevant unless you are a large-scale producer.

Bottom line, take all of those calculator numbers with at least a teaspoon (not just a grain) of salt. You don't need to hit the midway point of each range in order to make good soap, and in some cases, you can be completely out of range and have wonderful soap.

 

[Relle]

1. That is a yuge recipe

What's a yuge recipe Alipop ?

 

[AliOop]

What's a yuge recipe Alipop ?

"Yuge" is localized pronunciation of the word "huge." A little bit like pronouncing the word "herb" with or without the "h" sound.

"Yuge" is how former President Trump pronounces the word. Thus it has become something of a jest here in the US, either in fun because they like him, or in mockery because they don't.

Kinda like how Alipop is your nickname for me

 

[cmzaha]

I would definitely not put beeswax in a pine tar recipe. Pine tar alone causes acceleration along with the 50+% of tallow. AliOops recipe would be good, which is similar to my pine tar soap although I use 15% neem oil in my pine tar soaps.

 

[DeeAnna]

Everyone is giving good advice here. All I want to add is don't place too much importance on the INS number. It is a simple one-number value that was created for tweaking recipes for large-scale commercial soap production. It's not well suited for handcrafted, hobby soap making where people use all sorts of fats.

You're better off to learn more about the fatty acid percentages in your recipe and evaluate those numbers instead. If you want to know more about INS, see my article: https://classicbells.com/soap/iodineINS.asp

And @AliOop -- I get ya about "yuge"!