I have not used tallow in years but have almost always soaped with between 50-65% lard. It seems like I remember that tallow traced faster than lard, though. I like to do designs which take a bit of time, eg, using dividers and three colors. Would that take too long for a tallow heavy bar?
How much faster does tallow trace than lard?
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Tallow definitely traces faster than lard for me. Unfortunately, I can't recall any time that I've used a high-tallow recipe to make a soap with several dividers and colors. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that!
Thanks, AliOop, searches provided all kinds of contradictory results and I wanted to see if any trusted voices had opinions. So yours helps!
I don't use tallow very often so I can't say for certain, but...
I generally don't use lard at over 45%. When I have tallow and want to use it (because I do like it) I will take 20% or so from the lard and replace it with tallow. This might not be quite as slow as if it was all lard, but it does seem like I can do most techniques. Maybe not something that requires super fluid for an extended amount of time, but I think a three color swirl, or using dividers and a Taiwan or Mantra swirl should be fine. All this is, of course, if my memory is correct (it just turned another year older
).
I generally don't use lard at over 45%. When I have tallow and want to use it (because I do like it) I will take 20% or so from the lard and replace it with tallow. This might not be quite as slow as if it was all lard, but it does seem like I can do most techniques. Maybe not something that requires super fluid for an extended amount of time, but I think a three color swirl, or using dividers and a Taiwan or Mantra swirl should be fine. All this is, of course, if my memory is correct (it just turned another year older
).Thank you @dibbles, between you and @AliOop I feel like I'm covered! I'm going to do pretty much as you suggested, 30% lard, 25% tallow and I'll also soap higher water than usual and as close to RT as possible given the false trace potential. Hopefully that will enough to get me through this batch and then reassess if I need to. Thanks again, my friends.
We will wait patiently for the pictures.... 
Good luck that everything goes to plan. And yes, pictures please!
Hope it was a nice b-day, @dibblesAll this is, of course, if my memory is correct (it just turned another year older
Thank you - it wasHope it was a nice b-day, @dibbles
Your soaps certainly are getting more and more beautiful as the years go on. At some point soon it is going to be impossible for them to be prettier, though, you're going to have to take up painting or something!
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How tallow heavy? With or without lard also in the recipe? Why type of fo's? Tallow can be friend or foe, I've found and is capable of setting up really fast.
Hey @lenarenee! Initially I'd hoped to have it much more tallow heavy, ie; to substitute tallow for my normal 60-ish% lard. But I think i'll follow @dibbles' advice and do a mix.
@not_ally I may be too late to pipe in - I made a 30% tallow & 25% lard soap yesterday. It would have given me a lot of time to come to trace if it hadn’t been for the FO! Foiled again - I bought a new FO and although the description SAID it behaved nicely - it didn’t for me. But if you haven’t made your tallow/lard soap yet, I think you’ll get a good amount of time to play around. ( I soap pretty cool, and with 1.8:1 water:lye)
Thank you, @janesathome! That sounds good, will use a well-behaved FO and cross my fingers.
My tallow recipe is slow, sometimes to the point of being too slow. 41% tallow, 25% HO sunflower, 17% RBO, 14% coconut, 3% castor, 1.5% sugar or sorbitol, 1.5% sodium citrate, 2-3% SF, @40% lye concentration, with a very well-behaved fragrance, starting at 95 -100 F, and stick blending to stable emulsion, the recipe stays fluid enough for the most intricate of swirls. A variation made with 43% tallow, 21% HOSO and 5% castor behaves about the same. I use tallow from Soapers Choice.
ETA: tallow is a bit faster than lard for me, but it’s waaaaay slower than any recipe I make that has 35% or more palm in it.
Eta: Happy Birthday @dibbles
ETA: tallow is a bit faster than lard for me, but it’s waaaaay slower than any recipe I make that has 35% or more palm in it.
Eta: Happy Birthday @dibbles
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I think a mix is best too because tallow is fickle (in my experience). I've had slow moving and fast moving recipes with tallow/lard. The tallow source was from the same container, so perhaps the aging process had something to do with it. (although it contained edta and citric acid to prevent rancidity).
I have used tallow and my whole batch seized to soap on a stick. However, I chalked it up to my fragrance oil. So I really don't know lol. Never occurred to me that tallow is a quick mover.
I use lard now since it seems to stay fluid for me much longer which enables me to create the designs I want.
I use lard now since it seems to stay fluid for me much longer which enables me to create the designs I want.
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I do 100% tallow (beef and deer, occasionally lamb) and while it does come to trace fairly fast, it’s pretty easy to work with as long as you remember that beef tallow has a high melting point and if it drops below about 120F, you can easily get a false trace. I make other soaps too, but deer tallow soap is one of our family’s all-time favorites.
I used beef suet tallow that I rendered by myself and it traced super fast. My recipe was coconut 20%, castor 5%, tallow 40%, olive 35%. It was close to soap on a stick.
Several day ago I got tallow from Essential Depot, mixed it with lard (40/40%) and it is super slow. But the suet tallow is completely solid at Florida room temp, while Essential Depot one is very soft. So it seems to depend on tallow.
Several day ago I got tallow from Essential Depot, mixed it with lard (40/40%) and it is super slow. But the suet tallow is completely solid at Florida room temp, while Essential Depot one is very soft. So it seems to depend on tallow.
Well, I must respectfully disagree
and here is why.Your first/fast recipe also included a combined total of 25% coconut and castor, both of which are fast movers.
Your second recipe included 40% lard, which is a very slow mover. After the 40% tallow, you don't mention what oils made up the remaining 20%. But even if it was all CO, it was still less than what you used in the first recipe. Just those changes alone would have made a significant difference in speed of trace.
Speed of trace would have been affected by the temperature of the lye and oils, how much water you used, what additives were used (including EOs and FOs), and how much you stick-blended.
Bottom line, unless you use the exact same recipe (including all additives), and you also controlled for all of the other variables, it's really not a fair comparison between your home-rendered tallow and the store-bought tallow. In my own experience, I've used both, and I don't see any difference in speed of trace. YMMV
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