How much Aloe Vera Gel is too much Aloe Vera Gel

[mensasnem]

I've started using Aloe Vera Gel* in my soap. I truly like the results.

I started out using 50g for 218g of fat -- fairly minimal. I like that way it makes the soap feel and would like to increase that. But I wonder how much is too much? I have noticed that my 100% coconut oil soap doesn't lather quite as well with Aloe Vera Gel. The soap recipe I use gives a range of water from 54g to 84g. So, 50g Aloe Vera Gel would include discounting the water to some degree.

But how much can I add before it begins to degrade the quality of the soap? Does anyone know.

*It is food grade. The label says, 99% organic Aloe Vera juice. It does contain a thickener, pH stabilizer, and a mold inhibitor.

 

[shunt2011]

You can add as much or as little as you want. You can use it for 100% replacement of water in your recipe. I use aloe juice as 100% water replacement.

 

[mensasnem]

I truly appreciate that you provided an answer. However, I'm reasonably certain that I cannot simply use as much as I want and that it will never degrade the finished product. There must be an upper limit.

Maybe I should add: I'm not using any water - just Aloe Vera Gel.

Has someone tested the upper limit on using Aloe Vera Gel?

 

[AliOop]

I truly appreciate that you provided an answer. However, I'm reasonably certain that I cannot simply use as much as I want and that it will never degrade the finished product. There must be an upper limit.

Maybe I should add: I'm not using any water - just Aloe Vera Gel.

Has someone tested the upper limit on using Aloe Vera Gel?

I think you misread @shunt2011 ’s answer. She is saying that you can use as much as you want — UP TO full water replacement. You should be reducing the water in your lye solution gram for gram with the aloe vera gel.

If you are already doing that, which it sounds like you are, then the question you are really asking is, “How much LIQUID can I add to my soap before degrading the quality of the soap?”

That is a valid question, bc excess liquid - whether that is water, aloe vera gel, vinegar, fruit purée - can make for a very soft soap, and can cause warping and cracking during the cure. I haven’t seen anyone recommend a liquid:lye ratio more than 2.5:1 unless it is for hot process, due to evaporation during the cook.

Also, normally aloe vera in any form increases lather. Since you are getting reduced lather, it could be that some of the other additives are affecting the soap, esp the pH stabilizer, I would guess.

Perhaps it would be worth making your own gel from the fresh plant, and making a bunch of small test batches. We’d love to hear how your experiments turn out.

 

[DeeAnna]

Uh, Shari is saying she uses aloe as 100% of the water required and gets good results. Isn't that an upper limit by definition?

People do dissolve alkali (NaOH) directly in aloe gel. No need to do a split method where 50% is water and 50% is aloe. We've just been talking about using 100% aloe instead of plain water to make a lye masterbatch, and people are reporting it works just fine.

Since aloe gel is well over 99% water, you aren't really doing a "water discount" in the sense that you're using less water to make the batch compared to however you define "full water". There is so very little non-water content in aloe, it can be considered the same as plain water.

(Be aware there isn't a set meaning for water discount and full water -- they mean whatever you want them to mean)

If you want to use zero plain water, and you want to max out the aloe in the batch, you should set the lye concentration to 28% (or the water:lye ratio to 2.57). That will give you a recipe with the highest amount of water (or aloe) that is reasonably safe for use with a cold-process method.

If you make soap with a hot process method, you could safely set the lye concentration to 25% (or a water:lye ratio of 3) to pack a little more aloe into the batch.

edit -- @mensasnem -- Are you using the Majestic Mountain Sage calculator? I re-read your first post and realize you gave a range of water weights. That's a characteristic of the MMS calc and maybe a few others.

The simplicity of the MMS calc appeals to beginners. I understand that appeal, but this calc dumbs down the process of developing a recipe to the point I can't recommend it. I recommend full featured calcs like soapmakingfriend.com or soapee.com. They provide detailed recipe information and better control over the recipe calculation process. -- end edit

 

[AliOop]

@DeeAnna I see you were responding as I was revising my prior response after thinking about it further. Thank you for clarifying and saying it better than I did!

Since the OP is experiencing reduced lather with the AV gel, what are your thoughts about this potentially being caused by the additives in the gel?

 

[mensasnem]

Thank you for the clarification.

When I use 50g of Aloe Vera Gel (no water) -- I like the results -- though the final product is not as sudsy as it is when I use water instead. The 37g of lye dissolves well in 50g of Aloe Vera Gel.

I live in an area where Aloe Vera will not survive winters. I do have a small plant that I bring in during the winter, but it's doubtful it will ever be large enough to use for making soap.

I use The Sage for my recipes. For 218g of coconut oil, I use 37g of lye. It suggests the liquid be between 54 and 82 g. When I use Aloe Vera Gel, I don't use any water.

37 x 2.5 = 92.5. I should be good as long as I don't exceed 92.5g of Aloe Vera Gel. Is that correct?

I think you misread @shunt2011 ’s answer. She is saying that you can use as much as you want — UP TO full water replacement. You should be reducing the water in your lye solution gram for gram with the aloe vera gel.

If you are already doing that, which it sounds like you are, then the question you are really asking is, “How much LIQUID can I add to my soap before degrading the quality of the soap?”

That is a valid question, bc excess liquid - whether that is water, aloe vera gel, vinegar, fruit purée - can make for a very soft soap, and can cause warping and cracking during the cure. I haven’t seen anyone recommend a liquid:lye ratio more than 2.5:1, and even that is typically only for hot process, due to evaporation during the cook.

Also, normally aloe vera in any form increases lather. Since you are getting reduced lather, it could be that some of the other additives are affecting the soap, esp the pH stabilizer, I would guess.

Perhaps it would be worth making your own gel from the fresh plant, and making a bunch of small test batches. We’d love to hear how your experiments turn out.

 

[DeeAnna]

There are too many unknown variables to say for sure, but I rather doubt the additives in the aloe are causing the problem.

People use fresh aloe gel harvested straight from the plant's leaves as well as bulk commercial aloe with thickeners and preservatives. To the best of my knowledge, I can't recall anyone saying they think increasing the amount of aloe results in less lather, regardless of where they get the aloe.

Disclaimer -- I don't use aloe in soap, although I've been saving up aloe from my plant for a future batch just to try it at least once to say I've tried it.

 

[mensasnem]

My coconut oil soap made with water is older and VERY cured. Maybe that could be the difference.

 

[cmzaha]

I will throw in my opinion of dissolving lye in aloe juice. I do not advise trying to dissolve lye in 100% fresh aloe gel it is just to thick in my opinion to be a very reliable way of dissolving lye. Aloe juice and aloe gel are quite different even when the fresh aloe is well pureed. With the juice, I agree that it works well as a 100% water replacement, with fresh aloe gel I find it best to go with 50/50, and neither in my opinion affects lather negatively. When I do soap with aloe I use more fresh than juice or sometimes I use both if I happen to have masterbatch made with Aloe juice, which I do or did quite often.

 

[DeeAnna]

...I use The Sage for my recipes. For 218g of coconut oil, I use 37g of lye. It suggests the liquid be between 54 and 82 g. When I use Aloe Vera Gel, I don't use any water.

37 x 2.5 = 92.5. I should be good as long as I don't exceed 92.5g of Aloe Vera Gel. Is that correct?

If you want to use a 28% lye concentration (2.57 water:lye ratio), which is the most water I'd use for cold process soap making, then yes, you'd use 92.5 g of aloe as a 100% water replacement.

I'd suggest you choose another soap recipe calculator for more control over your recipe settings. The MMS calc is tolerably okay for a math-phobic beginner, but it's not a full featured calc for someone who wants to do anything more than the basics. I recmmend soapee.com and soapmakingfriend.com

 

[AliOop]

@mensasnem I don't live where aloe vera plants grow well, either. But I am able to buy large (VERY large) aloe leaves at the local Winco, in the produce section, for about $1. If you can find that in one of your local stores, one of those yields several cups of pureed fresh gel.

 

[mensasnem]

Nothing like that in Springfield MO. But, I'll check again -- maybe I missed it. This is a very backward place -- meat and tatoes is all anyone here eats. No point in a really good fresh produce store. But, again, I'll look again. Still have a gallon of the stuff I bought.

@mensasnem I don't live where aloe vera plants grow well, either. But I am able to buy large (VERY large) aloe leaves at the local Winco, in the produce section, for about $1. If you can find that in one of your local stores, one of those yields several cups of pureed fresh gel.

 

[DeeAnna]

I've found single aloe leaves in Walmart -- large but not remotely "AliOop large." Nor as cheap.

 

[mensasnem]

Oh, nice. Thanks. I'll have to look for that in Springfield -- probably on the south side of town.

I've found single aloe leaves in Walmart -- large but not remotely "AliOop large." Nor as cheap.

 

[AliOop]

I've found single aloe leaves in Walmart -- large but not remotely "AliOop large." Nor as cheap.

Yes, mine were amazing large. I bought two, and had to cut them in half to fit into my chest freezer.

 

[cmzaha]

Most of our Hispanic grocery stores here sell very large aloe leaves for around a dollar.

 

[mensasnem]

I used to be a math teacher -- so, I'm pretty certain I'm not math phobic. I'll check those out. Thanks.

I'd suggest you choose another soap recipe calculator for more control over your recipe settings. The MMS calc is tolerably okay for a math-phobic beginner, but it's not a full featured calc for someone who wants to do anything more than the basics. I recmmend soapee.com and soapmakingfriend.com