Hot Process too Soft?

[Logansama]

I didn't think I'd be asking this particular question...LOL!

OK, I'm not a novice soap maker but I tried HP for the first time last night. I used a recipe that calls for a lot of softer oils with 20% coconut, because in CP yogurt is added at the end and it moves really quick. I figured by the time I added my yogurt the lye would be saponified and so it wouldn't seize. I was correct. Also, I used 38% water, which is more than I planned, I was going to use 36% and reserve the rest for the end.

Anyhow, I cooked the soap for 45-60 minutes and it remained very fluid. I rose it to about 180, it looked glossy and translucent. I added fragrance and yogurt at 150. I did a 2 color swirl and it really turned out pretty. It passed the "zap" test and when I cut it, has a lovely, dense texture.

But, its very soft. It sat for about 7 hours, then I stuck it in the freezer for a half hour before unmolding and cutting.

Like I said, its really nice, but will it harden with drying time? I chose HP because its for an event in 4 weeks, I generally cure CP for at least 6 weeks.

TY!

 

[dixiedragon]

I didn't think I'd be asking this particular question...LOL!

OK, I'm not a novice soap maker but I tried HP for the first time last night. I used a recipe that calls for a lot of softer oils with 20% coconut, because in CP yogurt is added at the end and it moves really quick. I figured by the time I added my yogurt the lye would be saponified and so it wouldn't seize. I was correct. Also, I used 38% water, which is more than I planned, I was going to use 36% and reserve the rest for the end.

Anyhow, I cooked the soap for 45-60 minutes and it remained very fluid. I rose it to about 180, it looked glossy and translucent. I added fragrance and yogurt at 150. I did a 2 color swirl and it really turned out pretty. It passed the "zap" test and when I cut it, has a lovely, dense texture.

But, its very soft. It sat for about 7 hours, then I stuck it in the freezer for a half hour before unmolding and cutting.

Like I said, its really nice, but will it harden with drying time? I chose HP because its for an event in 4 weeks, I generally cure CP for at least 6 weeks.

TY!

Did you use more water than normal? I use higher water with my HP for a smoother pour, but it does take longer to cure and harden.

 

[DeeAnna]

You have just learned why HP needs as much or more cure time than CP to be at its best. The idea that HP is ready to sell the day (or week) after it's made is a myth. All soap needs a minimum of 4 weeks and sometimes more to be at their best -- mild to the skin, best lather, firm bar, long lived.

The few HP batches I've done are at 25% lye concentration. That includes ALL sources of water. If you included water based on "38% water as % of oils" PLUS you also added yogurt, your water content may be higher than is necessary. Not sure about that since you didn't share your recipe, but that's something to look at. It may also be that this is your first HP batch and you are learning what it's all about and what you're seeing is fairly normal HP soap.

I suggest you think about switching to using lye concentration or water:lye ratio rather than using "water as % of oils." You're going to get more consistency from recipe to recipe if you do that. Water as % of oils works against the soaper -- using this method of calculating water causes recipes that need less water to have more water than is ideal. Vice versa for recipes that need more water. More info: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=530575

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I find that my hp soaps need 6 weeks where the same recipe cp would only need 4, because of that softness issue. Physically they can harden well over the next couple of days, but in use hp soaps can dissolve much quicker than a cp bar of the same age. For an event, you might well be doing yourself an injustice taking these along.

 

[Logansama]

Did you use more water than normal? I use higher water with my HP for a smoother pour, but it does take longer to cure and harden.

I actually did, I generally do a water reduction with this recipe. I have another batch of the same recipe ready to go so I'll reduce the water a little. Thanks!

I find that my hp soaps need 6 weeks where the same recipe cp would only need 4, because of that softness issue. Physically they can harden well over the next couple of days, but in use hp soaps can dissolve much quicker than a cp bar of the same age. For an event, you might well be doing yourself an injustice taking these along.

Thanks! I'll play it safe and hold this one to the side till the last minute. I did know that the drying time was the same, but I generally cure for 6+ weeks with my CP, just as a matter of course.

You have just learned why HP needs as much or more cure time than CP to be at its best. The idea that HP is ready to sell the day (or week) after it's made is a myth. All soap needs a minimum of 4 weeks and sometimes more to be at their best -- mild to the skin, best lather, firm bar, long lived.

The few HP batches I've done are at 25% lye concentration. That includes ALL sources of water. If you included water based on "38% water as % of oils" PLUS you also added yogurt, your water content may be higher than is necessary. Not sure about that since you didn't share your recipe, but that's something to look at. It may also be that this is your first HP batch and you are learning what it's all about and what you're seeing is fairly normal HP soap.

I suggest you think about switching to using lye concentration or water:lye ratio rather than using "water as % of oils." You're going to get more consistency from recipe to recipe if you do that. Water as % of oils works against the soaper -- using this method of calculating water causes recipes that need less water to have more water than is ideal. Vice versa for recipes that need more water. More info: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=530575

Thanks very much! I was aware of the drying time, I just wanted to make sure the saponification process was complete. I'll go check out that thread. I use Soap Calc for my recipes, so I'll look at adjusting the lye concentration.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...make sure the saponification process was complete..."

The other story floating around the soaping community is how it takes weeks 'n weeks for CP soap to be safe to use. That's a myth too.

Unless you put the soap in the fridge or freezer, properly-made CP soap should be fully saponified in a day or two -- allow a week to be utterly on the safe side. At that time, just like HP, a bar of CP soap is going to be quite safe to use -- and probably harder than HP at that point. But ... at the risk of belaboring the point ... a few more weeks will improve either one.

 

[Logansama]

"...make sure the saponification process was complete..."

The other story floating around the soaping community is how it takes weeks 'n weeks for CP soap to be safe to use. That's a myth too.

Unless you put the soap in the fridge or freezer, properly-made CP soap should be fully saponified in a day or two -- allow a week to be utterly on the safe side. At that time, just like HP, a bar of CP soap is going to be quite safe to use -- and probably harder than HP at that point. But ... at the risk of belaboring the point ... a few more weeks will improve either one.

Ye

Yes, I've found that CP is certainly better with time, but I'll test on my hands within a couple weeks. I'm sure the same will be the case with the HP. I'll just go ahead and do a few more CP batches because I'll need them anyway.

Speaking of "better with time," I made a brine soap that was 100% coconut oil, super fatted at a really high ration wtih coconut oil. I didn't care for it at the beginning, though I loved how hard and frothy it is. I put it away and forgot about it, that was about 8 months ago. Used it in the shower today...whoa. I'd still rather use a gentler formula but it was impressive.

 

[Dean]

I find that my hp soaps need 6 weeks where the same recipe cp would only need 4, because of that softness issue. Physically they can harden well over the next couple of days, but in use hp soaps can dissolve much quicker than a cp bar of the same age. For an event, you might well be doing yourself an injustice taking these along.

Once HP is fully cured...about 6-8 wks...will solubility still be an issue?

 

[shunt2011]

Once HP is fully cured...about 6-8 wks...will solubility still be an issue?

TEG hasn't been here since July.....might pop in though.