Honey, mix with oils or water?

[ItsForrest]

I want to make a honey & oatmeal soap. I see some videos and recipes where honey is added to the oils before the lye and some with the honey mixed into the water first.

How do you add your honey? Have you tried it both ways?

I understand some of the issues with lye and honey generating heat and possibly scorching or caramelizing the honey. If I were to add the honey to the water first, I would add the honey to warm water to aid mixing, then chill and have a bowl of ice to keep the water temp down while adding the lye.

If I add the honey to the oils first, will the lye still add extra heat when mixing wit the oils and honey? Would I mix at lower temps to counteract the extra heat?

 

[MullersLaneFarm]

Honey is water soluble. I've had the best results by thinning honey with equal part water and adding the thinned honey to the soap batch after incorporating the lye solution. Reduce the amount of water used in your lye solution and use to thin your honey.

 

[soapmaker]

Ditto.

 

[ibct1969]

The only time I have used honey in a recipe is for a facial bar that I got from Jan Berry (The Nerdy Housewife). I love this recipe by the way: https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/cold-process-soap/guest-post/

She mixes it with witch hazel and then adds that to the batter at trace. It does heat the batter bit so I put it in the fridge overnight and all is well

 

[wardbond]

One on the reasons that we add certain ingredients directly to the lye is to steralize them... But the lye denatures a lot of the benefits...
So in this case honey is a fairly sterile product anyway (tradition medicine uses it in would care). So I say the later you add it the better.. if you want to split a small bit of your water to dilute the honey but add it at trace, you could keep more of the honey properties.

If it was hot process Soap you would even add it till after you had cooked down the PH.. that's when hp soap maker add their luxery super fats

 

[SaltedFig]

I've added honey in a bunch of different ways (my next experiment will be to add honey after the cook, using the airless soaping method, or sous-vide soap method).

The peroxide benefit of honey is deactivated by the lye, whether the honey is added to the lye or to the batter; if the lye is active, the peroxide benefit of the honey is consumed.

I want to make a honey & oatmeal soap. I see some videos and recipes where honey is added to the oils before the lye and some with the honey mixed into the water first.

How do you add your honey? Have you tried it both ways?

I understand some of the issues with lye and honey generating heat and possibly scorching or caramelizing the honey. If I were to add the honey to the water first, I would add the honey to warm water to aid mixing, then chill and have a bowl of ice to keep the water temp down while adding the lye.

If I add the honey to the oils first, will the lye still add extra heat when mixing wit the oils and honey? Would I mix at lower temps to counteract the extra heat?

Honey added to oils: Adding honey undiluted to warmed oils might thin the honey out enough to mix in. If you mixed in your lye solution shortly after, it should work. If the oils are cold (or have gone cold), then expect honey spots in the finished soap. This method will heat during saponification.

Honey in soap batter: Adding dilute honey to the batter (in the way MullersLaneFarm describe above) adds to the heat during saponification. This is my current preferred method, as it gives a creamy finish to the soap.

Honey in Lye water: Adding the honey to the lye solution heats up the mixture, so this is best done after the lye solution has cooled, to avoid scorching. This technique is especially good if you have other "heaters" in your mix. This method is the one most likely to turn the lye solution orange.

Honey in Lye water version 2:
Another version of adding honey to the lye water is to make a 50% lye solution, and separately dilute the honey in the balance of your recipe's water.
Once the lye solution has cooled, add the honey solution to it and wait for the mixture to heat and cool again, then add this lye mixture to the oils.
The batter will not heat again from the honey, so again this technique is especially good if you have other "heaters" in your mix.

 

[IrishLass]

One on the reasons that we add certain ingredients directly to the lye is to steralize them... But the lye denatures a lot of the benefits...
So in this case honey is a fairly sterile product anyway (tradition medicine uses it in would care). So I say the later you add it the better.. if you want to split a small bit of your water to dilute the honey but add it at trace, you could keep more of the honey properties.

Lye is still very active at trace, so it really doesn't matter if you add the honey at the beginning when it's 100% active, or at trace when it's about 80% to 90% active still. Either way, its proteins/enzymes will be affected by the lye see here.

If one is looking to keep most of its properties, your best shot would be to do HP and add it after the cook, but then again, you should ask yourself why you are adding the honey to your soap in the first place. If it's for its goodies like the enymes or antibacterial properties, etc.., I'd rather eat it or put it directly on my skin rather than put it in a denaturing environment that's just going to get rinsed off my body anyway.

Speaking for myself, I add honey to my soap for it's lathering and humectant properties. It promotes lather in my soap better than regular table sugar does, using only half the amount, and it leaves a nice after-feel on my skin after rinsing off....and it leaves a nice Bit 'O Honey candy smell in my soap (temporary, though the scent might be).

When I make soap with honey, I add the honey (diluted in a little of my batch water) directly to my already prepared lye solution, which has first been cooled to room temp. It'll heat up the solution some and get dark, but that's the only drama it causes me. I like to add it this way because my soap will go through complete gel without any overheating/cracking/oozing/separation issues that I used to experience when I added my honey to my batter.


IrishLass

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Honey is water soluble. I've had the best results by thinning honey with equal part water and adding the thinned honey to the soap batch after incorporating the lye solution. Reduce the amount of water used in your lye solution and use to thin your honey.

Ditto. Use rate: 1 Tablespoon PPO

 

[ItsForrest]

Thanks for the replies.

Had good results from my first goat milk, honey and oatmeal soap yesterday. It's still a bit soft so it's going to stay in the mold at least until tomorrow evening. I had no issues with the honey. I did as suggested and deducted water from the lye to thin the honey and mixed it in at light trace. Since I was working with goat milk, I mixed with everything pretty cool and put the soap in fridge overnight to keep it from gelling. Keeping the milk cool on ice while very slowly mixing the lye was a bit tedious but it worked like a charm.

 

[Complexions]

When using honey in CP, I do a 50% lye solution, and the other 50% is what I add my honey into (which is usually a milk) that I add at light trace. When doing HP, I add the honey in the end after the cook with a little bit of reserved liquid once the soap has cooled down slightly.