Something curious is that the thiosulfate causes the water to drop in temperature. I can’t remember exactly but I think by about 10 degrees. I believe I included it in the video. I wonder if less water would mean more cooling.
Homemade Vanilla Stabilizer?
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Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
I have been doing more research and I am going to try and get some sodium sulfite today because I believe that may be the ingredient that we are looking for.
3 ounces of the thiosulfate definitely dissolved with ease in 1 ounce of water. However I am not convinced that this is the ingredient we are after. I believe that sodium sulfite might be the one we are after. I hope to have some for testing by Monday at the latest.
That patent stuff was really interesting, @Todd Ziegler! I don’t have a science background so some of it was way over my head. I did see that there are several sulfites that might be combined for the solution, so I appreciate you investigating the other possibilities.
I also wasn’t sure if the reference to phenylacetaldehyde was in relation to the invented product, or to the results. But my thought was that most aldehydes smell pretty sharp and strong. So could phenylacetaldehyde be the sharp smell we get from the premixed stuff?
I also wasn’t sure if the reference to phenylacetaldehyde was in relation to the invented product, or to the results. But my thought was that most aldehydes smell pretty sharp and strong. So could phenylacetaldehyde be the sharp smell we get from the premixed stuff?
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
It could be but my nose smells a more sulfur scent. I will no more tomorrow when I get the sodium sulfite.
Oh, I forgot to mention that something I read in the patent information indicated that the VS would be less effective in the presence of citric acid.
That is important information for those who use CA in their soaps.
That is important information for those who use CA in their soaps.
Rogue-Soaper
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I'm going to try it too, I have some on hand that I used to get the green (from the pool) pout of my son's girlfriend's hair.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
That I didn't see but I don't use it so I would have glanced over it.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
I found the source of the horrible smell,it is sodium metabisulfate. I have not gotten a chance to see what its dissolvibilty in water is yet and I also don't know if it is combined with the sodium thiosulfate, which I doubt. I will do everything tomorrow and update the post. The only thing I know with any certainty is that it smells just like the VCS that I use right now.
Wow, great discovery, Todd! And this is the stuff used in wine-making, correct?
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Yes, it is used in wine making and sterilizing the equipment. I think this is what is being used in VCS's.
The VCS that I use is prone to evaporation, so my question would be, does that mean that there is a high percentage of the metabisulfate in the product or is evaporation a condition at any percentage?
I haven't made any samples yet but I thought I would seek some opinions on this.
I was only able to do a 25% solution in an ounce of water. It dissolved very quickly and it had a very strong sulfur smell like the VCS I use from Aztec candle.
I have noticed that Aztec candle carries crafters choice products but not their VCS so they might be making their own at Aztec. My question now is, why is Aztec so much cheaper than the rest. They charge $5.95 I think for 16 ounces but every place else charges a lot more. If most of the VCS for sale has that same smell, then they all must be using the same or something similar as the ingredients.
I feel like I am missing something but I don't know what. It will be a few days before I can actually test the solution because I am waiting on the FO.
This is exciting to follow - in Australia we have very limited access to colour stabilisers and those available are reported to be pretty ineffective. I have some thiosulfate on order and will buy some metabisulfate as well to try.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
I haven't gotten a chance to use the metabisulfate yet.
I tried a 50/50 solution and it dissolved very well. I then tried a 60% metabisulfate mix and it did dissolve, but very reluctantly.
When I get the right FO delivered, I will try a 50% mixture.
I tried a 50/50 solution and it dissolved very well. I then tried a 60% metabisulfate mix and it did dissolve, but very reluctantly.
When I get the right FO delivered, I will try a 50% mixture.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
I'm making a batch right now with my 50/50 metabisulfate solution. I'm using a cotton candy FO from WSP with a 9% vanillin. I am going to use a 1:1 mix with the FO which will be 1.8ozs of each. It says it darkens to dark brown. I'm using a synthetic white mica for half and a electric blue for the other half.
My recipe is 54% lard, 20% Coconut oil, 10% palm oil, 10% safflower oil high oleic, 6% castor oil and Sodium lactate.
I should know some results later today or buy tomorrow morning. I hope it works because this could be a real boost for all soap makers.
Edit: the vanillin is 9% and not 6%.and it shades to dark brown. WSP says the safe amount is 12.5% but I only used 6%
Here is what it looks like after 4 hours. I used white mica but the FO turned it just a little darker but nothing close to what the description of the FO says. I won't know until tomorrow what the soap in the mold did. I gelled it and now I am letting it harden. I will post pictures as soon as I cut it tomorrow.
My recipe is 54% lard, 20% Coconut oil, 10% palm oil, 10% safflower oil high oleic, 6% castor oil and Sodium lactate.
I should know some results later today or buy tomorrow morning. I hope it works because this could be a real boost for all soap makers.
Edit: the vanillin is 9% and not 6%.and it shades to dark brown. WSP says the safe amount is 12.5% but I only used 6%
Here is what it looks like after 4 hours. I used white mica but the FO turned it just a little darker but nothing close to what the description of the FO says. I won't know until tomorrow what the soap in the mold did. I gelled it and now I am letting it harden. I will post pictures as soon as I cut it tomorrow.
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That's awesome for a 9% vanillin soap, Todd! It will be interesting to see if it darkens over time.
Any plans to try metabisulfate + thiosulphate? My thought was that maybe they are synergistic.
Any plans to try metabisulfate + thiosulphate? My thought was that maybe they are synergistic.
I’ve been doing a little research. Found this on a site for crafters choice vanilla stabilizer. Then I looked up disulfurous acid, disodium salt and it looks like the metabisulfate is indeed the same thing. It does list it’s percentage in the CC stabilizer as 20-30% however. I love this experiment!
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Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
That combination had crossed my mind but I will have to do some research and see how they would react to each other.
That is great research. I only made 2ozs, so when I make more I will lower it to 30%. As a note, I used white mica and I'm not sure if I didn't use enough and the darkening that occurred is not a natural occurrence do to the color of the FO because that is exactly the color of the FO.
Here is another picture of the test batch. I pulled the sides away as far as I could and it is not the best picture. It is hard to see but it is much whiter than the separate test bars in the other picture. Also it is hard to tell how much the gelling affected the outcome.
After it was to late, I realized, I should have poured out a little bit of soap without the VCS or mica as a comparison to the VCS treated soap. Maybe tomorrow I will try another batch, with better test bars.
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My goodness, it looks very white! And no rind showing, either. I'm cautiously hopeful!!
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Yes I'm very cautious too. 2pm EST will be 24 hours but it will be ready to cut by tomorrow morning.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Here is an update after 19 hours. The pictures are not the best.
The first picture is the un-gelled bar, absolutely no change.
2nd picture is the gelled batch. The soap is a off white but in order to show the shading on the edge, I had to modify the picture. That's why it looks darker than it is.
3rd picture is modified but it is definitely an off white or dull white, if you will. I circled the edge so that you can see the darkened edge.
Note: I used 1.8ozs of FO but after looking at my notes I realized that I only used 1.5ozs of metabisulfate. I don't know if that had any effect on the VCS working properly but I don't think it did. Because @Jersey Girl research would be mean that I have a stronger formula than what they sell.
I am going to try a mix of sodium thiosulfate and metabisulfate either today or tomorrow.
The first picture is the un-gelled bar, absolutely no change.
2nd picture is the gelled batch. The soap is a off white but in order to show the shading on the edge, I had to modify the picture. That's why it looks darker than it is.
3rd picture is modified but it is definitely an off white or dull white, if you will. I circled the edge so that you can see the darkened edge.
Note: I used 1.8ozs of FO but after looking at my notes I realized that I only used 1.5ozs of metabisulfate. I don't know if that had any effect on the VCS working properly but I don't think it did. Because @Jersey Girl research would be mean that I have a stronger formula than what they sell.
I am going to try a mix of sodium thiosulfate and metabisulfate either today or tomorrow.
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So if I am understanding this correctly, the actual color looks more like the last bars? If so, that's pretty amazing for the first try of a homemade solution! Of course you don't want the off-white or the shading if possible, but I'm guessing that you are going to nail this down. Great job!
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