High oleic sunflower vs ride bran vs OO

[Bee55]

Hello all,
Lately I’ve been contemplating swapping some of my recipes’ OO for another oil. The recipe has 50% OO. My biggest concern is how these other oils fare with regards to DOS. Do you have any advice regarding high oleic sunflower oil at 15/20% please? Rice bran seems more stable to me than regular sunflower oil, but would high oleic be better than rice bran? Or maybe it’s best to just stick to OO? The reason I am thinking of swapping some of the OO is in order to add some more lather. Sunflower oil has given nicer bubbles, but will high oleic one do the same when oleic acid isn’t really one to give much bubbles?
Thanks very much for your input

 

[SeaSuds]

You might find this thread a good read: Why don't you like olive oil?

I have read that Sunflower oil can be prone to DOS so High Oleic sunflower oil is a better choice. It is hard to find in the UK though so if you find a good source please let me know! I can only see it from one supplier on Amazon (Flavoil) so that puts me off if they run into trouble and I can't source it again. It is really lovely in soap though and is a light coloured oil for a nice white bar. Sweet Almond Oil is cheap in the UK (from the Soapery), I love it and use it up to 44% in my recipes for personal use as a replacement for olive oil (I use an olive oil/avocado oil recipe for selling). Rice Bran oil can be expensive but is also lovely and there are quite a few threads on here you can read. You just need to experiment and see what you like and what suits your skin. There is also lots of good advice here about adding ROE to your oils and citric acid to your recipe to avoid DOS. DeeAnna has a great blog called Classic Bells which will tell you all you need to know on this subject. You could also reduce your olive oil and add one of the above oils to boost lather or consider adding additives such as sorbitol, sugar, aloe vera etc...so many experiments to try!! Basically I doubt you will regret trying any of them, they all have lovely qualities to bring to your soap!! Have fun!

 

[Anstarx]

I don't use SO since HO version of it is as expensive as OO here.
RBO on the other hand, love it. It's one of the cheapest soaping oil here. It can accelerate trace and make the soap yellow. If you don't mind those, they lathers better than pure OO.
Sweet Almond is another oil that I like to use in conjunction with OO. It's about the same price or slightly more expensive than OO here but lathers better. My recipes usually calls for 50-60% soft oils and I will do maybe 15% RBO, 15% SAO, and 20-30% OO to balance it out. It traces not too fast and has a light yellow tinge. I won't use it if I want a white or pastel color soap but for dark soaps it's wonderful.

Also agree to SeaSuds, I always add sugar/syrup to my soap to increase lather.

 

[Bee55]

Thats very helpful, thank you both. I shall check the blog you suggested. Regarding high oleic sunflower I found a few suppliers but they sell in big quantities (20L) for example Natural Oils | AAK
Rice bran feels great in soap to me but it does seem to be expensive here in the UK. Regarding sweet almond oil, I always steered clear since I assumed people with nut allergy might react to the soap. Do you think it’s a valid concern?

 

[Anstarx]

Thats very helpful, thank you both. I shall check the blog you suggested. Regarding high oleic sunflower I found a few suppliers but they sell in big quantities (20L) for example Natural Oils | AAK
Rice bran feels great in soap to me but it does seem to be expensive here in the UK. Regarding sweet almond oil, I always steered clear since I assumed people with nut allergy might react to the soap. Do you think it’s a valid concern?

If you want to sell I'd put on a clear label of warning but personally I don't think it's necessary to completely discard it.
This may sounds insensitive but folks get allergic reaction to all kinds of things. Some are allergic to coconut and palm, some are allergic to olive. Heck, I was diagnosed as allergic to the sun but I still go to beach with my friends. I just make sandcastles in the shades.
I have a friend who's unfortunately allergic to any dairy, egg, gluten and more, can't even touch them, so she can't use any of my soap that contains milk, egg yolk, or wheat germ oil. That didn't stop me from using those ingredients because I love egg yolks and milk in my castiles. I just label every ingredient clearly so she can decide for herself. Same thing when a client said they can't use my lard soap because of religion or vegetarianism or health concerns, I point them to my all-plant-based soaps.

 

[shunt2011]

I prefer HO Sunflower, it's not expensive here in the states. I've used Rice Bran and didn't care for it. I also like Avocado. I don't use any liquid oils at 50% so no help there. I prefer harder more rounded soap recipes personally. I also use SAO and just be sure to include it on the label.

 

[SeaSuds]

As Anstarx says there are so many allergies and intolerances around these days that you just have to pick your battles. If you sell, you will be guided by the strict labelling laws we must abide by in the EU (even after Brexit) so all the information that people need to decide for themselves will be right there in front of them. It costs a lot of money to have your soap recipes assessed before selling but there is no limit on the number of base recipes you can put through, so you can have a base that contains the 'nutty' oils you may come to love and another without...then it's just a case of how you market them to your target customer

 

[cmzaha]

Hello all,
Lately I’ve been contemplating swapping some of my recipes’ OO for another oil. The recipe has 50% OO. My biggest concern is how these other oils fare with regards to DOS. Do you have any advice regarding high oleic sunflower oil at 15/20% please? Rice bran seems more stable to me than regular sunflower oil, but would high oleic be better than rice bran? Or maybe it’s best to just stick to OO? The reason I am thinking of swapping some of the OO is in order to add some more lather. Sunflower oil has given nicer bubbles, but will high oleic one do the same when oleic acid isn’t really one to give much bubbles?
Thanks very much for your input

The high oleic Sunflower will not act the same as the regular sunflower. In fact if you are using that much OO I would not add another HO oil. HO Sunflower and HO Canola give no lather as single oil soaps and are just as snotty as OO soaps. My skin does not like high oleic soap in the form of high OO, or HO oils so I keep my HO Sunflower or Canola no higher than 15%. Avocado I will go as high as 20% and will also go 20% with SAO. SAO does add lather to soap.

In the US Shea Nuts and Coconuts are also considered Nuts.

 

[SeaSuds]

I thought a coconut was a fruit seed

 

[AliOop]

I thought a coconut was a fruit seed

It is pretty ridiculous, but as @cmzaha noted, that's how they are classified in the US.

 

[Bee55]

The high oleic Sunflower will not act the same as the regular sunflower. In fact if you are using that much OO I would not add another HO oil. HO Sunflower and HO Canola give no lather as single oil soaps and are just as snotty as OO soaps. My skin does not like high oleic soap in the form of high OO, or HO oils so I keep my HO Sunflower or Canola no higher than 15%. Avocado I will go as high as 20% and will also go 20% with SAO. SAO does add lather to soap.

In the US Shea Nuts and Coconuts are also considered Nuts.

That’s a shame about the lather.. I just made a few test batches with rice bran and high oleic sunflower. Will be interesting to see if I can notice any difference to the olive oil.
Interesting about SAO- I have used it before and lather was really nice indeed (as well as peach kernel oil), however isn’t sweet almond oil also pretty high in oleic acid? I always thought it was around 60% Oleic at least?

 

[Anstarx]

That’s a shame about the lather.. I just made a few test batches with rice bran and high oleic sunflower. Will be interesting to see if I can notice any difference to the olive oil.
Interesting about SAO- I have used it before and lather was really nice indeed (as well as peach kernel oil), however isn’t sweet almond oil also pretty high in oleic acid? I always thought it was around 60% Oleic at least?

SAO is 71% oleic, higher than olive's 69% according to soapcalc. I couldn't give a scientific answer aside from the fatty acids aren't the only way to judge an oil's lather ability lol. I'm keeping my RBO to cut cost when needed but I'm definitly uping my SAO as soon as I find a cheaper supplier.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I use RBO at 20% - along with OO also at 20%. It's my cheapest oil here at $5 per litre (approx GBP$2.50). I don't use any nut oils purely because my son has a nut allergy and i do wonder about whether the soap might cause eczema or dry skin if I use it. Coconut is not classified as a nut here in NZ.

 

[Dawni]

Not tried high oleic sunflower oil coz I can't seem to find it here...

But for RBO vs. OO, Rice brain oil is the clear winner for me and mine. Check this thread out n see what others have to say about it.

I use sweet almond oil too but not over 20% coz it's expensive where I am, about 3.5x the cost of RBO.

 

[Orla]

Thats very helpful, thank you both. I shall check the blog you suggested. Regarding high oleic sunflower I found a few suppliers but they sell in big quantities (20L) for example Natural Oils | AAK
Rice bran feels great in soap to me but it does seem to be expensive here in the UK. Regarding sweet almond oil, I always steered clear since I assumed people with nut allergy might react to the soap. Do you think it’s a valid concern?

Bee55, this is not a new post, but I just wanted to say that in France, and I suspect it's similar in the UK, it's the Chinese dealers who sell Rice Bran Oil and it's cheap as could be. Not organic, but definitely cheap
.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

You might think about high oleic safflower oil. I use it in all my soaps. However I don't know if it is readily available in the UK or not.

 

[szaza]

I agree with @Orla on going to Asian stores for RBO.
For HO sunflower I have to look between the frying oils, it's labelled 'sunflower frying oil' - not sure it's the same in the UK.
Which oil you like best is very personal. What you can do is make test batches where you replace all your OO from your current recipe with another oil and compare them.
I compared OO, SAO, RBO and HO sunflower at 75% about a year ago. Here's the thread if you're interested:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/oo-vs-sao-vs-rbo-at-75.75571/

 

[Bee55]

Bee55, this is not a new post, but I just wanted to say that in France, and I suspect it's similar in the UK, it's the Chinese dealers who sell Rice Bran Oil and it's cheap as could be. Not organic, but definitely cheap
.

How interesting, I will have a check! Thank you.