Help with DIY Daily Shower Spray

[TennisGirl]

I've made two different versions of DIY daily shower spray, both work well to keep soap scum at bay:

1 part water + 2 parts vinegar
OR
6 T citric acid dissolved in 1 quart hot water

There's another version out there that uses hydrogen peroxide, but I don't want to use that bc my understanding is that HP degrades quickly once exposed to light, air, and water. But I digress.

I'd like to add EOs to make the spray smell better, but don't want to use dish soap as the solubizer (which is what all the YT folks recommend). Has anyone tried PS80 for this, and if so, how much do you use? TIAFYH.

Just had another thought that perhaps I might try rubbing alcohol instead of PS80, as maybe that will be less likely to cause buildup (which is why I don't want to use dish soap - counterproductive in my mind to the whole purpose of a daily shower spray).

I am confident that the rubbing alcohol would be fine mixed with the vinegar and EOs, but not sure if it would interact badly with the citric acid somehow. Anyone with more chemistry knowledge (which is probably lots of people here, haha), please chime in to let me know if RA would be good, and if so, any idea how much? Thanks!

 

[DeeAnna]

Commercial dishwashing liquids are synthetic detergents, not actual soap. That's why none of them are labeled with the word "soap" although I'd guess most consumers don't realize there's a difference.

Anyways, syndets don't make soap scum like true lye-based soap does. PS80 is a synthetic detergent.

If you use true lye-based soap for dishwashing, that's a different story. You're correct -- using actual soap in the shower spray would be counterproductive.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Has anyone tried PS80 for this, and if so, how much do you use?

LECTRIC MIRACLE SPRAY

I recently made up some of this "Miracle Spray". I used Arm & Hammer Washing Soda and homemade Coconut oil LS. I see no reason why you couldn't sub Polysorbate 80 or 20 for the dish soap in the recipe plus your essential oil of choice, although Eucalyptus EO is known to be antibacterial and antimicrobial and a beneficial "refresher" all by itself in a steam shower.

The best way to test Poly 80 or 20 as a "solubizer" is to add it to water, stir to completely incorporate. Then add the EO. Stir for one full minute. Set it aside to see if the oil rises to the top. If it does, add more Poly until the EO no longer separates out.

 

[TennisGirl]

Thank you ZanyinCO, I should have been clearer. I am making a daily spray-on, leave-on shower spray. It works to prevent build up over time.

I do have a great shower cleaning recipe for when it is time to clean. Mix in spray bottle half vinegar, half dish soap, some EOs. Spray on all shower surfaces and let sit for 10-15 minutes. Scum comes right off with gentle scrubbing motion. Rinse well with hot water. No solubizer needed in that one bc the dish soap as a surfactant does what is needed to keep the EOs from separating out.

But the daily shower spray has no dish soap so that’s why I’m considering PS80. I think alcohol won’t work bc too much is needed to solubize the EOs. The recipe as is works great, I was just hoping to add a nicer smell. The CA version doesn’t smell at all but the vinegar sure does.

Sorry pushed send too soon. Thank you for the tip on dispersing the PS80. I will try it!!

 

[rparrny]

I've made two different versions of DIY daily shower spray, both work well to keep soap scum at bay:

1 part water + 2 parts vinegar
OR
6 T citric acid dissolved in 1 quart hot water

There's another version out there that uses hydrogen peroxide, but I don't want to use that bc my understanding is that HP degrades quickly once exposed to light, air, and water. But I digress.

I'd like to add EOs to make the spray smell better, but don't want to use dish soap as the solubizer (which is what all the YT folks recommend). Has anyone tried PS80 for this, and if so, how much do you use? TIAFYH.

Alcohol is really the only non solubilizer base but you really don't need ANY solubilizer, just shake the bottle before use.

 

[TennisGirl]

Alcohol is really the only non solubilizer base but you really don't need ANY solubilizer, just shake the bottle before use.

Thanks but I don’t like the results of shaking. It leaves EO drops here and there, which has the potential for undiluted skin contact. A solubizer is best for skin safety.

I tried the1:1 ratio as suggested by Zany and it worked well. Thanks Zany!!

 

[rparrny]

Sorry, I figured if your going natural you would avoid synthetics like PS80. Not likely you would have to worry about contamination on the skin from a spray bottle, I've been doing it for years with no issues. You also may want to take a look at the MSDS on the product. If your worried about skin contamination of an essential oil, you have a lot more to worry about with PS80. It's a known irritant and that is listed on the MSDS. Just sayin...

 

[TennisGirl]

I hear ya and would normally totally agree. Unfortunately, I'm very sensitized to EOs and get strong reactions if they touch my skin undiluted including instant high blood pressure, migraine, heart racing, or skin rash. I'm ok as long as they are diluted so if I want to use them in cleaning products, I have to solubize them somehow. Dish soap works well for many applications, but not for a daily shower spray where the purpose is to prevent soap scum.

But I do appreciate all suggestions and am open to hearing more if you can think of them. And that includes things that aren't quite as "natural" such as a touch of PS80. It still ends up being a much less toxic product than what we can buy in the cleaning aisle. And much less expensive, too.

 

[amd]

I've made two different versions of DIY daily shower spray, both work well to keep soap scum at bay:

1 part water + 2 parts vinegar
OR
6 T citric acid dissolved in 1 quart hot water

Do you think the second version would work with sodium citrate?
I had every intention of making my own sodium citrate from citric acid and baking soda, but did a reality check and I just don't have that kind of time, so I bought sodium citrate instead of making it.... long story short, I have sodium citrate but no citric acid.

 

[TennisGirl]

Commercial dishwashing liquids are synthetic detergents, not actual soap. That's why none of them are labeled with the word "soap" although I'd guess most consumers don't realize there's a difference.

Anyways, syndets don't make soap scum like true lye-based soap does. PS80 is a synthetic detergent.

If you use true lye-based soap for dishwashing, that's a different story. You're correct -- using actual soap in the shower spray would be counterproductive.

Thank you DeeAnna somehow I missed your reply earlier. Yes, normally I use my homemade LS when concocting household cleaning supplies which is why I was thinking about soap scum. I guess instead of PS80 I could use an equal amount of a syndet dishwashing liquid, and that would probably end up being cheaper than the PS80, too. I do like PS80 for stain removal in clothing and a grease cutter in some kitchen cleaners. But good ole Dawn works just as well for cleaning although not for stain removal for me anyway. So thanks for suggesting the syndet option since that may end up being the easiest choice.

 

[rparrny]

Skin sensitivity can be a real problem. As a certified aromatherapist and a PA for the past 30 years, it's been my experience that most (not all) skin sensitivities occur secondary to adulterated essential oils. It's really important that what ever company you buy your oils from furnishes a GC/MS report that will show level of adulterants and it's also a great way to compare oils with other companies. Most of the major companies provide it right on their website. I have sometimes found that certain oils from my favorite (but more expensive) company, sometimes didn't measure up against reputable but much cheaper oils when I compared the therapeutic components.
The end result is: if you haven't seen the GC/MS report of the oils that you are using, you can't possibly know if they are adulterated. I am also a former university professor and I love to teach, so if you want to learn how to read a GC/MS report, let me know, I would love the opportunity to show you how to read a report.

 

[TennisGirl]

Do you think the second version would work with sodium citrate?
I had every intention of making my own sodium citrate from citric acid and baking soda, but did a reality check and I just don't have that kind of time, so I bought sodium citrate instead of making it.... long story short, I have sodium citrate but no citric acid.

I am guessing no because I think SC is a salt and not as acidic as needed to clean. Vinegar works too but I find the CA works better and has no smell. Sure vinegar smell goes away after a bit but meanwhile, till it does... whew.

Skin sensitivity can be a real problem. As a certified aromatherapist and a PA for the past 30 years, it's been my experience that most (not all) skin sensitivities occur secondary to adulterated essential oils. It's really important that what ever company you buy your oils from furnishes a GC/MS report that will show level of adulterants and it's also a great way to compare oils with other companies. Most of the major companies provide it right on their website. I have sometimes found that certain oils from my favorite (but more expensive) company, sometimes didn't measure up against reputable but much cheaper oils when I compared the therapeutic components.
The end result is: if you haven't seen the GC/MS report of the oils that you are using, you can't possibly know if they are adulterated. I am also a former university professor and I love to teach, so if you want to learn how to read a GC/MS report, let me know, I would love the opportunity to show you how to read a report.

You are very kind to share your knowledge so freely. I only buy EOs from reputable soap suppliers who provide the necessary reports. Regarding the skin sensitivies, I'm just a person with lots of sensitivies and allergies, which is why I make my own soaps, cleaning products, and body care items. I can't use any commercial hair products at all, including any dyes, perms, etc. But it didn't help that when I first started using EOs at the urging of a friend in one of those MLMs, I was told I could use them undiluted. My allergist was furious because as we all now are more aware, using them undiluted is a great way to become oversensitized. Oh well, what's done is done but I'm very careful now since I don't want to stop using them altogether.

 

[rparrny]

Commercial dishwashing liquids are synthetic detergents, not actual soap. That's why none of them are labeled with the word "soap" although I'd guess most consumers don't realize there's a difference.

Anyways, syndets don't make soap scum like true lye-based soap does. PS80 is a synthetic detergent.

If you use true lye-based soap for dishwashing, that's a different story. You're correct -- using actual soap in the shower spray would be counterproductive.

Syndets are also synthetic components. You can use SCI (Sodium Cocoly Isethionate) in noodle or powder form but if using powder you MUST wear a good mask or SLSA (Sodium Laurly Sufloacetate) again with a powder you must wear a mask. They are excellent surfactants and are Ecocert approved as being considered "natural". I use them to formulate shower bars and the pH is 5-6 versus lye soap which is 9+...that strips the skin of it's acid mantle which is the first line of defense against pathogens, pollution and dehydration. If you use lye soap constantly, you will permanently strip the acid mantle away. I use it a few times a week only and use shower bars the rest of the week. Then the acid mantle will regenerate after a few hours. SCI is so gentle it can be used to create baby soap. SLSA creates a higher pH and is often combined with SCI to make a more balanced bar.

You are very kind to share your knowledge so freely. I only buy EOs from reputable soap suppliers who provide the necessary reports. Regarding the skin sensitivies, I'm just a person with lots of sensitivies and allergies, which is why I make my own soaps, cleaning products, and body care items. I can't use any commercial hair products at all, including any dyes, perms, etc. But it didn't help that when I first started using EOs at the urging of a friend in one of those MLMs, I was told I could use them undiluted. My allergist was furious because as we all now are more aware, using them undiluted is a great way to become oversensitized. Oh well, what's done is done but I'm very careful now since I don't want to stop using them altogether.

I hear you...and one of the BIGGEST MLMs out there does NOT supply a GC/MS report...ever...so who knows WHAT is in that bottle. Be aware if you use lye soap everyday, you are destroying your acid mantle on your skin which is a protective biome of sorts. You would benefit from learning how to create a shower bar with SCI, a very gentle surfactant, deemed natural by ecocert and makes a lovely bar that lathers nicely and has a ph under 6. (most lye soaps have a pH of 9+) Don't get me wrong, I use lye soap a few times a week, especially if I feel grimey from heat and humidity. But I also started formulating because of sensitive skin and the shower bar has been a game changer.

 

[TennisGirl]

I hear you...and one of the BIGGEST MLMs out there does NOT supply a GC/MS report...ever...so who knows WHAT is in that bottle. Be aware if you use lye soap everyday, you are destroying your acid mantle on your skin which is a protective biome of sorts. You would benefit from learning how to create a shower bar with SCI, a very gentle surfactant, deemed natural by ecocert and makes a lovely bar that lathers nicely and has a ph under 6. (most lye soaps have a pH of 9+) Don't get me wrong, I use lye soap a few times a week, especially if I feel grimey from heat and humidity. But I also started formulating because of sensitive skin and the shower bar has been a game changer.

I can use lye soap on my hair without trouble but it does best with gentle syndets so my shampoo bars contain SCI, SLSa, and CapB, among other things. I also make conditioner bars.

But my skin does better with lye soap made with animal fats, lard being best and tallow coming in second. Any kind of syndet dries it out horribly. I even have to rinse my hair so that the syndet lather doesn't go down my legs or the leg dandruff is insane.

 

[AliOop]

@TennisGirl Sounds a lot like me - I also prefer sydnet bars for hair, and lye soaps with animal fats for my skin. I also have to be very careful with many EOs (mostly the hot oils), or I get the exact same reactions you mentioned.

Sure appreciate you sharing some of your cleaning supply recipes. I generally keep mine unscented but wouldn't mind adding some scent for those times that we will be having guests. I may give the PS80 or dish soap a try for mixing in a touch of EOs for those of my friends who say that the house doesn't seem "clean" unless it smells like something nice.

 

[Rsapienza]

Syndets are also synthetic components. You can use SCI (Sodium Cocoly Isethionate) in noodle or powder form but if using powder you MUST wear a good mask or SLSA (Sodium Laurly Sufloacetate) again with a powder you must wear a mask. They are excellent surfactants and are Ecocert approved as being considered "natural". I use them to formulate shower bars and the pH is 5-6 versus lye soap which is 9+...that strips the skin of it's acid mantle which is the first line of defense against pathogens, pollution and dehydration. If you use lye soap constantly, you will permanently strip the acid mantle away. I use it a few times a week only and use shower bars the rest of the week. Then the acid mantle will regenerate after a few hours. SCI is so gentle it can be used to create baby soap. SLSA creates a higher pH and is often combined with SCI to make a more balanced bar.

I don’t believe any soap, lye based or syndet is recommended for a baby (newborn). SCI, while not disrupting the acid mantle, has been found to be drying in a babies ever so delicate skin.

I also believe this is why we SF, is it not?
Also, if the acid mantle regenerates after a few hours, what would be the difference in using a lye based soap daily or a few times a week?

 

[AliOop]

I don’t believe any soap, lye based or syndet is recommended for a baby (newborn). SCI, while not disrupting the acid mantle, has been found to be drying in a babies ever so delicate skin.

I also believe this is why we SF, is it not?
Also, if the acid mantle regenerates after a few hours, what would be the difference in using a lye based soap daily or a few times a week?

Totally agree, @Rsapienza! I use lye soap on my skin daily with no problems. My SF is usually 3% so not very high, but my bars are very low cleansing. Olive oil soaps tend to dry out my skin, but animal-fat soaps don't. But I am now making regular batches of high OO soap because a dear friend of mine has the exact opposite experience from mine.

Another piece of the journey for me was installing a shower head filter. Removing the chlorine from my shower water was like a miracle for my skin.

All that to say, I believe we all have to find what works for us. We can share experiences but need to be careful about telling others what they should do.

 

[rparrny]

I can use lye soap on my hair without trouble but it does best with gentle syndets so my shampoo bars contain SCI, SLSa, and CapB, among other things. I also make conditioner bars.

But my skin does better with lye soap made with animal fats, lard being best and tallow coming in second. Any kind of syndet dries it out horribly. I even have to rinse my hair so that the syndet lather doesn't go down my legs or the leg dandruff is insane.

I guess I’m getting confused at your use of syndets. They are synthetic and not natural. SCI, and SLSA are natural derivatives and are not synthesized. Many of the synthetic versions have a pH that can go as high as nine which would cause dry skin for you. An all natural shower bar made with SCI should have a pH between 5&6. And because you make it and it’s all natural the oils and butters you choose could be specific healing formulations for your skin. SLSA on its own has a pH that would be too high for your skin. You would need a formulation that was only SCI or a combination of SCI and SLSA.

I don’t believe any soap, lye based or syndet is recommended for a baby (newborn). SCI, while not disrupting the acid mantle, has been found to be drying in a babies ever so delicate skin.

I also believe this is why we SF, is it not?
Also, if the acid mantle regenerates after a few hours, what would be the difference in using a lye based soap daily or a few times a week?

I did a search of every study I could find on babies and SCI and there was nothing about SCI causing any irritation. You may be confusing syndet bars with natural bath bars. Syndet Bars often have a higher pH and it is the pH or the alkalinity of a soap that causes irritation. SCI has the lowest most gentle form of surfactant available. SLSA Is also a natural surfactant but the pH is much higher and often it is combined with SCI to lower the pH. But it is not recommended in the bath bars for babies. It would help if you showed me the source so that I could find out what they’re talking about. Syndet bars are synthetic chemicals. SCI is Ecocert deemed as natural and not synthetic.

 

[Rsapienza]

I did a search of every study I could find on babies and SCI and there was nothing about SCI causing any irritation. You may be confusing syndet bars with natural bath bars. Syndet Bars often have a higher pH and it is the pH or the alkalinity of a soap that causes irritation. SCI has the lowest most gentle form of surfactant available. SLSA Is also a natural surfactant but the pH is much higher and often it is combined with SCI to lower the pH. But it is not recommended in the bath bars for babies. It would help if you showed me the source so that I could find out what they’re talking about. Syndet bars are synthetic chemicals. SCI is Ecocert deemed as natural and not synthetic.

“ Moreover, soaps and cleansers should be minimally used in the first few weeks of life for newborns, because any attempt intended to raise the skin pH would promote the number of bacteria and increase the TEWL [69]. There is not enough evidence that soaps have long-term impact on infants, but in the short term, it could disturb their acid mantles [31,33,34]. Synthetic detergents such as cocoyl isethionate, and sodium lauryl sulphate are soap substitutes that have pH values similar to skin and are more moderate than soaps. They do not alter skin pH and microflora, but they disintegrate rapidly and can cause skin dryness [70].
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7167948/FWIW, the term “natural” doesn’t hold much weight as it is not a regulated term. Exocert or not, I cannot go out in nature and grab some SCI or SLSA. IMO, calling a product made with those ingredients “natural” is being a bit deceitful.

 

[TennisGirl]

@rparrny you are using the terms “syndet” and “natural” in ways that most people on this forum and all the instructional formulation sites that I’ve ever read don’t use them.

Here are the terms I see and use which seem to be the same as the way folks on this forum and the formulation sites use them. Syndet is short for synthetic detergent. It does not mean lye soap, which is true soap as defined by the US government and others (salt of fatty acids made by combining lye and fats). You can make a com-bar that has both soap and syndets but I’ve never tried that.

SCI, SLSa, CapB are all syndets EDITED: here is a link to a PubMed article on SCI which defines it as a syndet. They may be considered natural by Ecocert but I sure don’t think of them in that way and the formulating sites I use don’t call them that either. Here is a link to the Stephenson website where they also list SCI as a syndet and cite it as the most commonly used one.

I realize you have a lot of experience and training but so do many of us here. From other threads I’ve learned DeeAnna is a chemist with advanced credentials. I can’t claim that level of expertise but I have a pH tester, own and wear a dust mask with filters for airborne particles, and generally know how to make pH balanced bars using SCI and the like. Sure there’s so much more to learn but I’m pretty solid in the basics of syndets. I just officially joined this forum only a few days ago so I could ask my question in this thread but have spent many hours researching and learning a lot over the past decade since I made my first bar of lye soap.

It is good to ask people what they know before assuming you need to teach them something. I say that in all kindness because your knowledge and training are very welcome here.