Help, My CP Soap Turned Weird

[nryds]

Hello, I am new to soapmaking with only several loaves of CP soap under my belt.

Today I tried a new technique called negative embed, and I just made the base. Below is the recipe of the soap base:

188.70gr palm oil
188.70gr coconut oil
220.60gr olive oil
31gr avocado oil
90gr lye
201.3gr distilled water
42gr green tea fragrance oil
1 tbsp titanium dioxide as colorants
1 1/2 tbsp sodium lactate

Besides the new technique, I also used green tea fragrance oil for the first time. Problem happened when I added FO and titanium dioxide after it reached trace.. I don't know how you called this kind of soap batter

It got very rice-y, and I was afraid to stick blend it further so I managed to get the batter into the mold asap. I wasn't sure either if this was false trace. Now the soap is being insulated.. My question is: why something like this happen? Is there something wrong? Will this batch succeed? If it won't, what should I do to save this batch?

Any help will be very much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[shunt2011]

Hello and welcome. Ricing was probably caused by your FO. Is it from a reputable company made for use in high PH soap? Usually ricing can be tamed by more stick blending. However, not always. Looking at your photo looks like you’ve still got a lot of separation. It may need to be poured into a pot or crockpot and re batches with heat.

I recently had an FO rice after poured and had to beat it into submission messing up my swirl and it still had some small ricing. It did turn out fine after gelling it.

 

[shermluge]

Agreed with shut2011. When I've had it, I just stick blend through it.. Any new FO I get, I test with a small batch to see how it reacts. I usually wait till I have about 3-4 of them to test. Just split the batch and see what they do. The first one that starts to thicken (unless ricing, then beet through it), put in the mold quickly and so on.

 

[TheGecko]

I am going to guess that the TD wasn't dispersed in either water or oil. As such, 1 tablespoon of dry TD is simply too much for such a small batch size. And you used way too much Sodium Lactate.

Rule of thumb for TD is to disperse (mix) 1 tea TD to 1 tab oil or water.

Rule of thumb for Sodium Lactate is 1 tea per pound of oils or 454 grams of oils.

Also, your recipe is 60% hard oils; I'd go 30% Palm, 20% Coconut, 35% Olive and 15% Avocado.

What I do when working with a new recipe, colorant or scent, is to make a 1lb batch of 'plain' soap. By 'plain' I mean I just mix and pour and put it in my garage until the next day...if nothing happens. If it's a new recipe, I'll make it again and add a colorant and/or scent that I know behaves well and again, mix and pour and put in my garage. If it's a new colorant or scent...I use my standard recipe.

 

[nryds]

Whoa, thanks a lot for the warm welcome @shunt2011 . Also thank you for those wonderful tips @shunt2011 , @shermluge , and @TheGecko.

The recipe is actually a resize version of this project from Bramble Berry >>
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/cold-process-soap/misty-moon-cold-process/
The 1 tbsp TD was already dispersed (1 tea of dry TD in 1 tbsp water, and I just simplified it to 1tbsp TD ). For the sodium lactate, sorry I made a typing mistake. I meant it to be 1 1/2 TEAspoon instead of tbsp (I used less than that though, since it is supposed to be 1.38 teaspoon by ratio).

Now I'm biased towards the FO as the main culprit. The supplier did mention it would acc trace, never I imagined it would cause rice! To test a small batch is a great idea that never came to my mind, especially since my previous batches always turned out great using different FOs from this same supplier. I'll keep it in mind along with your recommended percentage of hard and soft oils for the next project though, thank you!

Anyway, after 24 hours the soap became very crumbly so I will try to do HP rebatch.

Thank you so much for every suggestion posted. I learn a lot from you all. Wish me luck in rebatching!

 

[nryds]

Hi, just want to give a little update.

1st and 2nd picture - The original soap hardened and came out of the mold well after 2 days. It held its shape, could be cut up without getting crumbly, but it looked horrible If I may add, it looked like a loaf of frozen oatmeal from my leftover breakfast.

Put aside my original design with negative embeds, I cut the soap into cubes, put them in a pot, and turned on low to medium heat. My mom thought I was burning the house because it smoked like crazy (the fumes smelled divine though). This was my first HP, so I was still not sure what I was doing (well I am!). Does rebatching usually cause a lot of smoke?

3rd picture - After the re batched soap
being released from the mold and being cut. I noticed several little holes on the soap. Is it normal?

4th picture - The rest of the soap in this batch. The weird cuts came from my mom's old crinkle cutter and it was very bendy. I sprinkled oatmeal so it looked nice in the picture, hope it helped the overall appearance

At this point, I am still not sure if the soap is OK to use. I read somewhere HP soap can be used immediately, but right now I am just going to cure them to be safe. I am afraid that my soap is lye heavy or has lye pockets and unsafe to use.. mostly because I don't know what else could go wrong.

How do I know that the soap is not lye heavy / has lye pocket? How do I know when they are ready to use?

Sorry for these silly questions. I hope someone her can help me to learn more about soapmaking, because this is so much fun Thank you.

 

[shermluge]

I may get people that do not agree on this, but I personally have had good luck using ph strips and zap test (when I first started, I actually purposely did to much lye to see how it would test to compare.. It looks like its been about 4 days since you made your soap. If your not sure on lye heavy I would personally PH test it. I punched your recipe in the lye calc and its correct (as long as you followed it). One other method I've done is when I'm just made the batch and it went sideways on me in a bad way, I would switch to hot process. In my case I ended up with a nice safe bar of lavender soap.

 

[cmzaha]

From your first pictures you apparently had some ricing and separation caused by your fragrance oil, which is really not uncommon from the type of fragrance oil. Somewhere in the reviews, unless it was a new fragrance, I would have thought a reviewer would have mentioned the fo ricing. Having poured it back into a bowl and continue to stick blend may have fixed the problem or pouring it into a crockpot or double boiler (bain-marie) in other words over indirect heat and heating the batter until it came together would have fixed it.

Now onto the current pics where the soap hardened in the mold should be fine, if there was not of leaked out oil left in the mold which I assume there was not. I am assuming the oils reabsorbed, gelled, and continued to saponify. Just zap test in a few days, let it cure and use it. It may not be pretty soap but it is soap. PH strips tell you nothing, soap is naturally a high ph, so just check for zap. The lye did its job by using the re-absorbed oils and making soap!

I may get haters on this, but I personally have had good luck using ph strips and zap test
It is not haters Shermluge we all or most of us zap test but know ph strips do not work for soap.

As for the re-batched soap, again no zap, it is fine. Next time you re-batch do not cut in cubes, but shred the soap and do not put the pan on direct heat, either put it in an oven or in a double boiler. Also remember to use a non-reactive pan such as stainless steel, never coated or aluminum pans. It can also be put in boilable bags and melted in boiling water. I think there was a test or challenge done in the forum here pertaining to using bags for re-batching soap. A search should turn up something. BTW, hp soap has to cure just as long or longer, due to using more liquid than cp soap. Do Not believe all you read on the internet or hear on YouTube. Yes, it is safe to use right after making it, and cp is also safe to use as soon as it is zap free but neither is great soap at that point.

 

[shermluge]

we all or most of us zap test but know ph strips do not work for soap.

When it comes to PH strips, I took the science approach and have found it to work quit well. I've tested on lye heavy and non lye heavy all known base lines.. For me it works and I know many other it also works (including scientists). You may not trust them, that is only your opinion unless you can give me scientific fact that shows other wise. I will also use a zap test if I want to double check anything. Remember the PH test strip is only one tool for checking.